{
"post": {
"title": "New passive skill tree for poe 2",
"selftext": "Hi everyone!! I know that we realy don't have enought information about the new tree we only have this picture from the actual trailer. For what i can tell the starting point are 6. Each shared between 2 classes. (Doesnt this make the new 6 classes reduntant? Just give 6 ascendancy to each of the old one and you are done). Also now you have to always go around. You can't travel in the center of the tree. Won't this make it a bit harder to make off meta build. \"Bowwielding druid\" ecc ecc. I have huge faith in GGG. But i realy liked how the tree was implemented in poe 1 and the respective starting points. Also in the Q&A jonathan seems to make clear that moving on the other side of the tree will be harder. What do you think? Is there actually a point in thinking about it since we are still one year away from beta?",
"url": "https://i.redd.it/pyfefycfcbfb1.jpg"
},
"comments": [
{
"body": "You can think about it for sure, but it might be totally different in a year",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I imagine the removal of Scion and center pathing is going to stick, seemed like the only thing they really said about it.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "from the image it looks like we are the middle",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Depends, the starting point in the picture is still bottom-left, just like current tree. It's just that you don't have scion in the center, replaced by what I assume are the art and later ascendency tree",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Thats what I meant with we are, like the centre is reserved for the character and every class branches out from it"
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Seems like there's generally less travel nodes though, and a lot of compressed notables."
},
{
"body": "They also said something like it was fewer points to go around the outside in one of the talks."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Interestingly, the POE2 website says the passive tree has 2000 skills instead of 1500. The passive tree is probably still heavily in development and they are figuring out the small details right now.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Yeah, even from this picture most of the passives are actually the same judging by icons and distance from start. They've just been rearranged visually and a number of wheels were taken out."
}
]
},
{
"body": "> (Doesnt this make the new 6 classes reduntant? Just give 6 ascendancy to each of the old one and you are done)\n\nThe reason was theming. They split them to better suit the ascendancies to their base, and will shuffle around to best fit them to the characters"
},
{
"body": "All 12 classes start in the middle and your class choice dictates where you start putting points. So in the image is (I assume) Warrior and Marauder would start at the same place. However, Marauder has 3 ascendancies and Warrior has 3 ascendancies, so you still have to make a choice between the two.\n\nTechnically right now it takes roughly 11 points to go from Marauder starting area to the Templar starting area. With the image above, it'd take 13. Going from Marauder start to Shadow start takes 25 right now cutting through Scion's area, while with the above it'd take roughly 36.\n\nIt's still going to be possible, there's just a bigger opportunity cost for it. Granted, they could come up with something REALLY crazy like taking the gateways from the Atlas passive tree and add it to the skill tree...",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Might be a bigger opportunity cost though. Lots of close clusters in the starting areas. Most of the travel nodes are the in between. You're going to definitely have to pay a large opportunity cost to move to another zone.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I listed numbers for what it would be basically just going from the starting 2 points of one class to the starting 2 points of the next or opposite class. It's a much bigger cost if you are completely crossing over, but we are judging the new tree layout against the old tree's passives. With the new passive tree there might be less incentive to cross over."
}
]
},
{
"body": "Indeed they might add jewels to move from one side of the tree to the other. What made me question their choice was that the new classes increaseis just from a theme point of view. No actual difference.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Except, there is an actual difference.\n\nI don't know if it's been confirmed since the reveal of the 6 new classes if the ascendancies that have been revealed (like Beast Master) are for the old class (Ranger) or are for the new class (Huntress). If it's confirmed they are for the new class, it'd mean that Ranger gets 3 new ascendancies and Huntress gets 3 new ascendancies.\n\nEven if it gets confirmed that the ascendancies we've seen are only for the new classes and the old ones keep the old ascendancies, that's still a way to differentiate them. If I want PoE1 ascendancy I pick the PoE1 classes, if I want the PoE2 ascendancies I pick the PoE2 classes.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "[deleted]",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Mechanically? Zero, probably.\n\nBut since they have a new character model for a Huntress and wanted to keep the \"old\" model for the Ranger, and that it \"fits better\" with the themes they want to try and work around, it makes sense to split.\n\nLike the example they gave of it makes sense for them for shapeshifting to be Str/Int, but it'd feel weird to have a Templar start shapeshifting.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Yes this is the answer.\n\nAnother example is Witch and Sorcerer.\n\nThey are not the same class.\n\nWitch more like necromancer and blood/dark magic.\n\nSorcerer is more for elemental magic.\n\nIt makes totaly sense to split the 2 classes from the beginning.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Exactly.\n\nAnd as much as \"theme\" might seem pointless, it does help people new and old envision what a character might be capable of. Even just looking at the Str/Int combo for example with Templar and Druid. Both could have some healing focus or group protection, but as they mentioned seeing a Templar suddenly be a Werebear and chuck out tornadoes would seem really weird to me. It's still possible, but just seems weird."
}
]
},
{
"body": "It also could affect items which depend on your class, like the forbidden jewels right now.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Right, that too. I really do hope they don't make general class specific gear like other games have done. Like how D2:LoD had the Javelins that only Amazon could use, or the Helmets only Druids could use, etc."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Not every choice is mechanical."
},
{
"body": "The differences will probably be in what sort of quest rewards they'll see. Ranger will see more bow-focused stuff, while Huntress will see more spear-focused rewards.\n\nLore-wise they'll also respond to quests differently. The Marauder will have unique dialog when going through Karui areas that the Hunter wouldn't, and similarly for Sorceress vs. Witch in Maraketh areas.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "[deleted]",
"replies": [
{
"body": "True, but adding dialogue is much easier than a gameplay change like that. Even PoE1 has different area-specific dialogue for each class, at least in the first 4 acts (the later ones came in a separate expansion much later and are still unvoiced except for Templar and Duelist iirc, but PoE2 will have all six acts releasing together so only having half of them have unique dialogue is less likely)."
},
{
"body": "> Remember when our bandit choice in Act 2 was supposed to influence the middle boss fight (now only Gruest) in Act 7?\n\nWait, what? When was this supposed to be the case?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "They said it when the 10 acts were revealed, and then said \"it'll be coming in a league or two\" when they didn't get it in for 3.0, and then they never brought it up again officially because it's obviously a lot of work and they're spread thin on the leagues themselves as is.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Thanks, I must have missed that somehow.\n\nDamn, would've been a really cool little gameplay + lore interaction that also mixes up the Campaign a little."
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "1) it probably is easier to ease new players in. Getting smacked in the face with 6 ascendancies might overwhelm a new player, while 3 is more manageable.\n2) they said it had to with thematic purposes \n \n\"Shapeshifting fits int/str, but not a templar\""
},
{
"body": "Because it's cool as fuck and adds to the class identity."
},
{
"body": "It \"forces\" you to make a new char, rather than using regret orbs and swap between 6 ascendancies. Though its not clear if they will give us that option in Poe2."
},
{
"body": "Because statistics. Then you can track data specific to the Huntress instead of everyone being a Ranger where you'd have to divide it into possible subgroups and interpret the data. It also allows for more variety and freedom in class design rather than sticking to a main class with subsets."
},
{
"body": "If something like Pure Talent exists that cares about classes then they could do something with that.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Actually ascendency stealing (assuming it will even exist in POE2) is a good mechanical difference as presumably a huntress can't steal the Ranger's ascendencies."
}
]
},
{
"body": "I remember a dev saying it basically started with the druid. For most classes the new ascendencies make sense, but why would the Templar suddenly turn into a bear?\n\nI personally prefer this way of creating themes, but it's probably also a good move to get new players interested. Not everyone will know what ascendancies are, but \"12 classes\" will get attention."
},
{
"body": "You probably can't respec a ranger into a huntress. So you can only play 3 ascendancies on a single character, rather than 6."
}
]
},
{
"body": "I wondered this, but I heard them talk about 'moving' Elementalist from Witch to Sorceress, so I'm expecting some familiar ascendancy names. Nothing to say the current nodes won't be swapped out for new toys though.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It would make sense if they want Sorceress to focus purely on elemental attacks to get Elementalist and to have Witch get another ascendancy like Defiler.\n\nI still wonder if we keep the current ones or only get new ones... because we heard of the Ranger ascendancies before we knew of the new classes. Beast Master, Tactician and Survivalist still feel more like \"Huntress\" ascendancies than \"Ranger\" ascendancies to me.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Adjustments will need to be made to older ascendancies. Guardian references mana reservation which flat out doesn't exist in Poe 2. The charge focused ascendancies lose all the passive charge bonuses. That's a pretty big deal. Stuff like inquisitor regen, slayer leech, pathfinder flask sustain would be completely broken in poe 2.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "They could be changed/updated, but still remain with the same name/model. Same as mentioned before for Elementalist potentially switching away from Witch towards Sorceress."
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "It was explained in an interview that this was done to fit the lore and fantasy theme.\nThe example given was that a druid fits to be a strength int hybrid but wouldn't thematically fit a templar."
}
]
},
{
"body": "There will only be 6 classes in poe 2 not 12",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Um...\n\nhttps://pathofexile2.com/\n\n\"Path of Exile 2 features twelve character classes, two for every combination of Strength, Dexterity and Intelligence. While each of the class variants focuses on a different playstyle, they're just a starting point. You can combine skills from many classes together to create your ideal character build.\n\nEach of the twelve character classes has its own three Ascendancy specializations, resulting in a total of 36 Ascendancy Classes to pick between.\"",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Hot dam why did I think they said there where only 6 at exilcon wtf this is good news haha",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Lol, no worries. This is why I'm wondering if the original \"these are Ranger ascendancies\" are because they are actually new for the Ranger, or if it was because they weren't ready to announce the Huntress and the other new classes."
},
{
"body": "6 starting locations. 12 classes total. 2 classes share each starting location. 3 ascendancies for each class. 36 ascendancies total."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "So how does this work? What if I want to start as Maruader but go into the Druid tree instead of the Templar tree? are you going to have to choose each possible class in a combination of 6 for your skill tree? are the classes in the same location going to be a toggle aside from your own class?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "From what I can guess from the short image we saw, it's just everyone starts in the middle, but where you assign you first 2 points and path out from there will be unique. If you are a Marauder (starting at the bottom-left) and want to path to the Templar/Druid area in the top-left, you'll need to just put points to path around.\n\nLike this:\nhttps://i.redd.it/uyx6i5b3odgb1.png"
},
{
"body": "Reading your question again, to clarify: New classes share the same start in the tree as old classes.\n\nThe Marauder and Warrior both start at the same points seen in the trailer. The Templar and Druid both start at the same place. Same for Witch and Sorcerer, Shadow and Mercenary, Ranger and Huntress, Duelist and Monk.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "the guy in the showcase said that druid passives will replace templar passives. so if i start as marauder/warrior or witch/sorcerer how do i know which passives im going to have access to if i go to the int/str part of the tree",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I don't think they meant that the passive tree itself would change, I think they meant, and probably spoke wrong, the Ascendancies and the start location."
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": ">Just give 6 ascendancy to each of the old one and you are done\n\nSome of their planned ascendancies simply don't fit any of the pre-existing classes\n\nTransforming into a bear for example would be a Str/Int ascendancy (I think) which would make it a templar. But that simply doesn't fit the templar theme.\n\n>You can't travel in the center of the tree. Won't this make it a bit harder to make off meta build.\n\nWe of course don't have all the details but they stated traveling to the other side of the tree from the exterior wouldn't cost as much as it currently does.\n\nFinally, there very well might be whole new things added that we do not know about yet, so it's a bit too early to speculate.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "They basically said druid was the breaking point. How can you add shape-shifting into the current classes? You can't, so let's make a druid. How can you add only one more class that doesn't start in the middle? You can't, so let's make 5 more"
}
]
},
{
"body": ">Doesnt this make the new 6 classes reduntant? Just give 6 ascendancy to each of the old one and you are done\n\nThe backstory and the looks of the characters are also important. The new characters also have new voices etc.\n\n>Also in the Q&A jonathan seems to make clear that moving on the other side of the tree will be harder.\n\nHe actually said the opposite. He said moving across the board will be easier. He did not want to say how, but I am assuming it will be similar to the atlas tree.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "IIRC he said that moving around the outside will be easier, but will be harder than it currently is to move through the center."
}
]
},
{
"body": "They're not redundant because each provides unique models, animations, voice lines, background, and gem rewards, as well as a suggested approach to the game that fits with that flavor. It's about class fantasy."
},
{
"body": "It's kinda sad to see that they deleted Scion. I liked the jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none vibe.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It was a cool concept but seemed very difficult to balance.\n\nMixed archetypes was almost always worse than a focused one, and there wasn't much benefit to jumping across the tree and extra points. If they ever did anything better than the ascendancies it wasn't really a jack of trades, just over tuned.\n\nMaybe it would work a lot better with the PoE 2 gem system, but looks like they are trying to push classes to be more distinct, so I can see why they removed it.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "i played an ascendant this league, was pretty fun tbh. you make pretty different pathing choices, and forbidden flesh/flame is more powerful on her.\n\ni like her concept."
},
{
"body": "THe problem is that she will either always be the best at something or worse, it is very hard to balance her as originally intended and have her work. It might have been better if she had her own mechanics and could also steal from others in some way. Either way the new system makes a bunch more sense for POE2 TBH"
}
]
},
{
"body": "One of my top PoE2 dreams was Scion being reworked to have an actual niche and generally be less terrible. I guess some dreams were meant to be dreams.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "She had 2 niches that she was good at:\n\n* Aura Stacking\n* Indigon Mana Stacker\n\nI didn't care much about the first one, but the second was my jam (at least pre-flask nerf when it still worked).",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Also Life and Attribute (mainly Strength) Stacking."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Scion kinda defeats the entire point of ascendencies though. I understand why they got rid of it. \n\nAt least we got a ton of new classes to make up for it going away."
},
{
"body": "I always liked more to travel though middle, before Scion. \n\nClass like Scion is a nightmare to balance. If it's good and hybridizes classes too well, everybody plays it. If it's weaker, nobody plays it."
},
{
"body": "I'm hoping we see a big Scion buff in PoE1; it'd drive home that PoE1 isn't \"the past\", and there are a lot of Ascendant nodes that I'd love to see improvements on (notably Gladiator, Occultist and Juggernaut in that order of preference). A new distinct Ascendancy would be even cooler, but I'm doubtful of that one."
},
{
"body": "I was gonna ask where tf is Scion. Did they announced her deletion? But they still have her on the character selection screen right? You know the one where they were getting hang?",
"replies": [
{
"body": ">But they still have her on the character selection screen right?\n\nI don't think we've been shown that scene outside of Exilecon 2019 when POE 2 was still supposed to be replacing POE 1.\n\nBut yeah, considering that they said there are 12 classes (all of which were shown in a trailer) with 36 ascendancies and not 13 classes with 37 + the Scion passive tree starting place is straight-up deleted I think it's safe to assume she's not in POE 2."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "I love the way they advertise it \"1500 passive skills!!!\" \\*^(1250 of which are travel nodes, and 200 of which are just the 1 node split into 3-4 node clusters)\n\nSeriously though we're so incredibly far out I wouldn't worry about much of any of the details beyond \"the graphics look neat\" and broad strokes what they're trying to do because everything else can change in the 2 years it'll take before this comes out.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "yeah this tree looks like it has way more travel nodes, which is kinda worrying. but it wasnt even finished as of the reveal, so... eh.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It doesnt, they just changed the distribution to be denser in the populated areas near the center and a lot less dense in the other areas, look how much ground one passive covers in the middle area"
},
{
"body": "Dunno, looks about the same to me."
},
{
"body": "Stats requirement for skills might be way higher. I believe they said you have to add every gems in a link for the requirements ?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Correct if you look at the supports on the poe2 website they say +10 str or +15 dex. So using off stat gems and supports is going to be a bitch at times or not feasible."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Didn't watch streamers playing poe2, were they not allowed to open passive tree?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "More so that that - I tested my demo character by removing gear and those characters didn't seem to have passive skills at all",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Oh shit really? As in with items off you had NO bonuses at all?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Hard to say for sure with stuff like damage but I did confirm no life, resists, attributes, or attack/movement speed from tree."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Nobody was."
},
{
"body": "I'd assume they were just given static bonus stats instead of allocated passives."
},
{
"body": "Oh, they tried. But they couldn't."
}
]
},
{
"body": ">Also in the Q&A jonathan seems to make clear that moving on the other side of the tree will be harder.\n\nI thought he said that it will be easier to move further around the passive tree. It was one of the main aspects of Scion and why they felt like she wouldn't be as suitable in PoE 2."
},
{
"body": "Johnathan said its less awkward to get to the other side of the tree with the scion area gone. This doesn't seem like its the case here.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I think he said its easier to get to adjacent area's but more difficult to get to opposite area's? I may be wrong but that is what I rememeber."
}
]
},
{
"body": "\"Doesnt this make the new 6 classes reduntant? Just give 6 ascendancy to each of the old one and you are done\"\n\nNot entirely. That would allow for a Templar to reroll into a Druid ascendancy and vice versa. I think locking it in gives each class more identity which is a major part of what makes an RPG an RPG.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It's questionable. The original PoE design had a very weak class identity, and to some extent (with every class being able to use every weapon and every skill) this is still the case."
}
]
},
{
"body": "I don’t think it will be necessarily redundant : it’s just a starting point on a pie. It really depends on how vast the tree is and how fast we can move around.\n\nBut I hope it will still be easy to move around, because making it harder is killing the awesome possibilities of a huge unique passive tree.\n\nFrom the picture, it seems there are still the highways of passive (visible at the edges of the picture) so for now I’m not worry about it.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I remember Jonathan said they made it easier to path around the outer circle to compensate.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "He also said it'll be harder to move to the other side.\n\nOverall, I have a feeling of a Jonathan vs Chris vision incompatibility leading to the PoE 1 vs 2 split.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I would think naturally it would be harder to go straight across with the center pathing gone. It's already a pretty niche thing in PoE, would probably remain similar.\n\nI've seen people saying Chris/Jonathan have different visions, but I don't really see anywhere they have disagreed? Chris seemed pretty in favor of Ruthless as a concept from the start, and that is what PoE 2 is shaping up to be like. Seemed like they just realized they couldn't do what they want with impunity, because it meant a lot of conflict and wiping things from the original PoE.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "chris said he enjoyed ruthless, and said it would be an optional add-on to the game--in poe1, thats the truth, its a separate game mode that people can play. and while weve had nerfs and some changes here or there, none of the core features of ruthless have made it into the core game like theyve demo'ed as having been feature-ettes of poe2 at exilecon.\n\npoe2 by all accounts appears to have removed that opt-in choice, which is why people are concerned and it looks as though a logical explanation is that jon believed that poe2 should be full fledged ruthless (with changes of course) and chris did not but chris has been hands off on poe2 for some time now as hes mentioned so i think its pretty reasonable to say that the game has split off into chris/jon camps"
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "In regards to your new classes being redundant, why not double the trees comment…new classes means new characters which means new models. You’d rather have half the models, why exactly? Especially when they can tailor them more, thematically? Curated appearance, voice, lore? Yes, that means they spent extra time on it, but I think it’s worthwhile for the immersion.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I've always thought of path of exile as the no-bullshit arpg no custumization. just good core game and interesting mechanics. The new models make me think that they had other plans about it but in the end it didn't work out. And don't get me wrong i'm super happy about the new visuals and also the gameplay. Just wondering if there is more to it.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "think about forbidden flame/flesh. if there are new items similar to this, a witch with six ascendencies =/= witch and sorceress each with three.\n\nthere are gameplay ramifications. and they also have specific gem selections in the uncut gem thing, which i imagine corresponds to the equivelant of poe1 gem quest rewards."
}
]
},
{
"body": "> You’d rather have half the models, why exactly?\n\nIf we're being just a tiny bit charitable to OP, rather than proposing that GGG delete the 6 new classes, they'd rather have class choice have an effect on gameplay other than the ascendancies available to you.\n\nAn example would be class choice determining what gems you get from quest rewards and/or what gems you can create from Uncut Gems.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I'm pretty sure class choice will have an affect on skills from uncut gems."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "This, unfortunately, reminds me of the tree from Wolcen.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Wolcen's tree was one of the best things about the game. Problem was half the nodes didn't work or do what it said they did, but the mechanic and overall idea of the tree was solid."
},
{
"body": "That too... wolcen was a huge disappointment."
}
]
},
{
"body": "And how many of them will be relevant? How many there are not counting small passives?"
},
{
"body": "I hope they do something about how you get the passives. As it is now in poe1 it really gets hard to upgrade your character by the skill tre once you get to lvl 95 or so. I would be nice if you could get passives by doing a tier of maps, killing guardians or getting achievements or something as well. 99% of the tree will be unused whatever you do."
},
{
"body": "I'm pretty sad they didn't even genderswap the alt characters from each section. Huntress and Ranger are still both Female. Monk and Templar are still male. With the break I assumed they'd open that part up but it doesn't seem so."
},
{
"body": "One single start in the middle sadly means less build diversity, because it limits the pathing options. A bit sad about this tbh. But I can get that they want to balance less.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "[deleted]",
"replies": [
{
"body": "\"Single\" in terms of one location in the middle. \n\n\nLets assume you want a passive from the left bottom. You will spend a lot of passive points to move to lets say melee specific weapons passives. \n\nCurrently those weapon passives are pretty easy to reach since the marauder start is located closer to those.\n\nExample:\n\nBeing located in the middle of str themed passives( poe 1) is superior in terms of passive requirement compared to being in an averaged out middle\". The classes lose a bit of their signature in a way.\n\n​\n\nBut that being said, the possible benefits are that you can not move straight into the int tree as a marauder. But I still do not understand why the scion was cut entirely. They should make her start in the middle too and make her a nice quest reward when completing story."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "\"Skills\" you mean 1450 filler nodes that scare people into thinking it's complex."
},
{
"body": "At first glance it already looks terrible, a lot of wheels have extra small nodes just to pad the tree and make pathing less efficient."
},
{
"body": "I see! So you stay over there, then you go there, and then you end up over there. Nice!"
},
{
"body": "Expect this to be very different by the time it all releases. \n\nMy only takeaway from it as it stands is maybe it's the same start location for everyone. As in the start locations around that picture are different for each starter class. Or the Witch and the Sorc start in the same place. \n\nMaybe you get something that lets you do a Scion-type jump to another starter location."
},
{
"body": "They said multiple times that this is only demonstration BETA tree and even asked the people demonstrating it to not hover over the nodes that this is not the actual tree."
},
{
"body": "Uh now I slightly remember someone mentioning that the removal of Scion would facilitate travelling through the middle of the tree. And no comment after that."
},
{
"body": "So I can see why they’d have everyone start from the center. It makes it easier for them to balance and control who can do what. It does take away some of the uniqueness of classes, but you still get unique ascendancies for each and everyone gets unique quest rewards. I could see this being a plus and a minus overall. Honestly makes me feel like they should just remove the class system entirely and allow us to just choose male or female and select whatever start we want, then just choose our ascendancy based off that starting point later."
},
{
"body": "The new classes are just there to make sense thematically with skills where the og classes wouldn't. For example a templar doing shaolin flip kicks. Small details like that seem inconsequential, but add up to a more immersive experience."
},
{
"body": "Did anyone else notice that some of the clusters of passives are in theme shapes? The lightning node cluster looked like a lightning bolt, fire looked like a flame. I think that's a pretty cool detail"
},
{
"body": "I wonder if this is a throwback to the [closed beta passive tree](https://i.imgur.com/o1mwF.jpeg) that started from a single point in the middle and branched off. which was later changed to the layout we recognize from today in [0.10.0](https://i.imgur.com/hDguBxh.jpeg)"
},
{
"body": "All i need in that tree is unwavering stance it looks like."
},
{
"body": "Notice how there are no masteries in this tree yet and still need to consider if they are adding cluster jewels back into poe2"
},
{
"body": "Are the class models the same? Do sorc and witch use the same model?"
},
{
"body": "Anyone else realize this screenshot doesn't have any mastery nodes?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "masteries won't make it in PoE2"
}
]
},
{
"body": "As you can see they did not leave space for scion for the future , sad noises",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Pretty sure there werent space for the Scion in the originaly tree from the get go either, this can change before release, or even four years into the game if they wanted to."
}
]
},
{
"body": "I'd imagine 6 classes start from this ring, while the other 6 start outside like how current POE is."
},
{
"body": "since scion won't be a thing, maybe there will now be a unique jewel that lets you start pathing from other parts of the tree.\n\nI really wouldn't think too much about it. There is a good reason they didn't give people access to the tree at Exilecon, it's just a placeholder for now."
},
{
"body": ">Each shared between 2 classes. (Doesnt this make the new 6 classes reduntant? Just give 6 ascendancy to each of the old one and you are done) \n\nyes but it's probably more of a flavor type thingy, rather than mechanical difference. Like sorceress goes into elementalist, cold dot caster or some ignite focused one for direct damage, and witch goes into minions, curses and whatnot for a more supportive character. With possible dialogue or other RPG choices behind the decision.\n\n\nPlus you probably can't respec your sorceress ascendancy to a witch ascendancy."
},
{
"body": "The reason for two classes is pure flavour. As for tree travel, Jonathan confirmed that the tree will have less travel nodes and it'll be easier to path through despite it not having a central hub where scion used to be."
},
{
"body": "The illusion of choice"
},
{
"body": "have they ever heard of quality over quantity? 1500 passive is at least 1300 too many"
}
]
}