{
"post": {
"title": "It's not about optimization",
"selftext": "**EDIT since I apparently wasn't clear enough**: I'm not claiming \"Wuthering Waves has no performance issues.\" It is that these performance issues are caused by something other than optimization. It's easy to think that optimization = performance, but in programming, optimization has a more specific meaning, which is to make a program run more efficiently or using fewer resources.\n\nHowever, there can be other causes for performance issues. For example, after I updated my Nvidia drivers, my GPU couldn't detect that it was being used, so it basically kept turning itself off. It doesn't matter how efficient your program is when your GPU is literally off. Similarly, another cause of stutters could be that something keeps crashing, but the program is able to recover. Recovering from this crash is better than simply closing the game, but it might take time which results in lag. I have no idea what the exact cause is in Wuthering Waves, but the reason I don't think it's optimization is that some people can run it well while others, often with better PCs, can't run it well.\n\nThis piece of misinformation happens to be harmful to Kuro, but I would be against misinformation even if it benefited Kuro. I'm not trying to take a side here, just spreading knowledge.\n\n**Original Post**\n\nMany people have been experiencing performance issues with WuWa and are saying the game is terribly optimized. Of course these issues are real, and Kuro definitely screwed up, but calling it \"optimization\" is not accurate. Instead, I believe \"compatibility issues,\" or more broadly \"performance bugs,\" is more accurate (not including things like launcher issues or crashes).\n\n**Why does it matter?**\n\n1. Players cannot fix poor optimization, but in the case of compatibility issues, you can try things like changing the version of various drivers. Personally, I started off running the game fine and only started having stuttering issues after updating my Nvidia driver, so I rolled it back and it works again. Obviously it shouldn't be the player's responsibility to do things like this, but it's something you can attempt while waiting for Kuro to fix things.\n2. Hearing things like \"WuWa is poorly optimized\" or \"WuWa needs a supercomputer to play\" will likely permanently drive off many new players, as games rarely become less intensive throughout their life span. They might instantly write off WuWa if they have a weaker machine, even if it would've run fine had they just tried it. Whether WuWa lives or dies, it should be by its true merits and not because of misleading statements. This particular piece of misinformation happens to be harmful to Kuro, but I wouldn't want anyone to spread misinformation that is beneficial to Kuro either. I'm not taking a side, just trying to stop the spread of misinfo.\n3. I'm pedantic and would be very satisfied if everyone spoke more accurately.\n\n**Why do I think it's not optimization?**\n\nPeople are getting wildly different experiences with similarly powerful machines, or even getting better experiences on less powerful machines. On my machine, WuWa actually runs far better than Genshin, while other people can barely play WuWa on a machine that can run Genshin or AAA games just fine. This usually indicates some kind of error happening in the logic, rather than simply not having enough processing power. In my experience as a programmer, the whole world of computing is held together by duct tape and prayers, and slight changes can cause things to collapse. Different companies follow different standards, and even stuff from the same company is not always backwards compatible, so compatibility issues are extremely common.",
"url": "https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/comments/1cznbpv/its_not_about_optimization/"
},
"comments": [
{
"body": "[It's memory leaks](https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/comments/1cyon4t/you_are_having_stability_problems_because/). Which, arguably, falls under \"optimization\". The game does *extremely poorly* when it runs out of RAM, or at least thinks it does."
},
{
"body": "I can't change drivers or do much on a smartphone. This game is absolutely not optimized well and it's not on me to be a PR agent for the devs while they fix it. They had a release date and knew what state the game was in, they had to have expected the honest reactions.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I literally acknowledged that Kuro fucked up. And I never asked you to be a PR agent, or to only say good things about Kuro/WuWa. I just think that speaking more accurately will be beneficial to everyone and that correctly describing the issues affecting the game right now will help other people make informed choices about whether they want to play or not, as well as whether they can do anything to improve their experience in the mean time.\n\nOf course mobile players can't really change drivers or such. I'm not saying \"oh just do this bro it's so easy, stop complaining.\" I'm just presenting options for those who are desperate to play right now. And again, saying it's not optimized well may not be very accurate.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "This is why I think it's something related with a third party process, since the game connection is really bad no matter if you got the fastest ISP, or your phone is top high end. "
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "I'm interested to know, as a programmer what's the difference in approach to fixing a compatability issue vs an optimization issue? Because I got the same impression. It's weird that among everyone saying their problems with performance there's no common trend in hardware.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Both are difficult, but in different ways. To optimize a program, it takes alot of knowledge about how your computer and engine work in order to utilize resources most efficiently. One type of optimization is algorithmic optimization, which means using a different algorithm that just mathematically takes fewer steps to run. However, in modern computers, the slowest thing is usually sending data between different parts, like the CPU, GPU, and RAM, so another big part of optimization is minimizing the amount of data that has to be transferred back and forth, and transferring whatever's left in a way that's fastest for your computer (computers actually try to predict what memory you're going to need next so if you can do things in a predictable pattern, like just reading straight left to right, it can be much faster) . Aside from needing alot of knowledge about how computers work, another thing which makes optimization difficult is determining which parts need to be optimized, and which parts are even possible to optimize or should just be scrapped.\n\nOn the other hand, fixing compatibility issues takes alot of research. You have to find out what changed between different versions of other people's software/hardware, whether it's by reading about it in their documentation or by just testing it with that software/hardware installed. It does take quite a bit of patience but at least there's a finishing line, when your program works on all your test setups, whereas with optimization you just have to draw your own line for when you're satisfied. Of course you can never guarantee it works on *every* computer out there but you can at least test all the major phones, and just squash any issues with rare computer setups as they appear.\n\nAlthough optimization can vary a bit between different computers, and of course a ton between PC/mobile, there are still basic principles that can be followed. In contrast, compatibility issues just take a ton of patience, testing, and reading. It feels a bit like physics vs biology (at least, the high school levels of each of those fields). With a physics question, you can apply the laws of physics to answer a wide variety of question, whereas with biology, you just have to know the facts."
}
]
},
{
"body": "Thank you for writing this.\n\nWould you be so kind to guide me in the right direction.\n\nIf it's a nvidia driver issue I'd like to roll it back as well as I upgraded it prior to the launch in order to be ready.\n\nGetting rid of stutters would be a godsend.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "The easiest way to roll back your driver is to go into device manager -> display adapters -> right click on Nvidia (whatever card you have) -> properties -> driver -> Roll Back Driver. If this option is greyed out, or if rolling back the driver takes to to a version that is now too old, you can go to [https://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us](https://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us) to find older drivers for your graphics card. Then I think just running the file it downloads will install the driver for you.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Thank you very much for taking the time to write this.\n\nI'll try it out. \n\nHave a wonderful day!",
"replies": [
{
"body": "did it work?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Sorta, the game is playable now, but the easiest \"fix\" is going to be to upgrade your pc, phone"
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Please tell your nvidia driver version",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Device manager tells me it's version 31.0.15.4659. Nvidia apparently uses a new numbering scheme now, but I guess the Nvidia drivers provided by the windows update catalog use the old numbering scheme.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "You can find normal version number directly in Nvidia Control Panel -> System info (in left low side of the window)",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Thanks, it's 546.59. Someone else tried one released in early May (I think it's 552.44) and that one worked for them. It might just be the May 21st release that broke things.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "My driver is up to date and I'm not facing any performance issues in ww other than some few frame drops from 60 to 50"
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Makes sense. Ue4 is bad at open worlds and partitions its sections, and the universal point of contention is the open world stutters. I would guess the logic is breaking down in the open world streaming."
},
{
"body": "Man pls don't tell it's not about optimisation....... I changed its resolution from 100 to 60 which is equivalent to 0.6 in genshin .... Still it ran at less than 20 fps .... Then I did some modifications in Engine.ini which literally made it look like some 2010 game ...... In GameBar the GPU usage was 40-50% still I got lags with avg 25fps ..... I have a low-end pc but I run genshin in mid settings with 45 fps ..... So even with 2010 like graphics in wuthering waves ..... It couldn't reach 30 fps even in windowed mode .... So ofc it's Optimisation issue right.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "The point of my post is not to say \"Wuthering Waves has no performance issues.\" It is that these performance issues are caused by something other than optimization. It's easy to think that optimization = performance, but in programming, optimization has a more specific meaning, which is to make a program run more efficiently or using fewer resources.\n\nHowever, there can be other causes for performance issues. For example, after I updated my Nvidia drivers, my GPU couldn't detect that it was being used, so it basically kept turning itself off. It doesn't matter how efficient your program is when your GPU is literally off. Similarly, another cause of stutters could be that something keeps crashing, but the program is able to recover. Recovering from this crash is better than simply closing the game, but it might take time which results in lag. I have no idea what the exact cause is in Wuthering Waves, but the reason I don't think it's optimization is that some people can run it well while others, often with better PCs, can't run it well.\n\nThis piece of misinformation happens to be harmful to Kuro, but I would be against misinformation even if it benefited Kuro. I'm not trying to take a side here, just spreading knowledge.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "ok thanks for the explanation ..... i am not an expert in this field so srry if i misinterpreted your words..... Well now when i think about it WuWa runs better on my phone more than genshin while its the polar opposite on my laptop ............ lets hope that they fix the issue soon ...... Peace",
"replies": [
{
"body": "No problem! Even if it's not exactly optimization, the performance issues are still a big problem and I hope you get to enjoy to game smoothly soon. "
}
]
},
{
"body": "i have a feeling that any new game will run bad on your hardware.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Did you mean to reply to me? After rolling back my drivers I'm running WuWa at a steady 60fps on max settings now. Other people with plenty powerful PCs are still getting issues though, so it's not just a matter of having a crappy machine. ",
"replies": [
{
"body": "No I ment to reply to the post above sorry. "
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Also make sure the game is running on your dedicated graphics card and not on the integrated one, that happened to me.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "how to change that"
}
]
},
{
"body": "whit me my laptop is rinning genshin in low qulity fine, my first 2 hours on wuwa, was hell, i had huge issuse w performance, evry thing i set on very low, low and the game was dying it didnt crash but itwas 3 fps , not metion the fact that we have good internet and it was showing a high ping"
},
{
"body": "[deleted]",
"replies": [
{
"body": "The lack of reading comprehension is astounding. "
}
]
},
{
"body": "I'm not pedantic so I'll continue calling it optimization issues and it's still going to be my first complaint about the game."
},
{
"body": "Everything has been working fine for me. I just want 120 fps on pc and better ping.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "There's a few guides on how to unlock 120fps, such as this one here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/1cyumj2/wuthering\\_waves\\_120\\_fps\\_guide/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/1cyumj2/wuthering_waves_120_fps_guide/) \nIt would be nice to have it available in the options menu though."
}
]
},
{
"body": "My rig is old. GTX 1070, 2.8 GHz, 16GB Ram. I trimmed frame rate and shadows. Ping over 100 all the time from North America PST west coast. But somehow, it plays fine, or at least well enough for me to get through the game. Ping does shoot up to 300-500+ when the game first loads in, but stabilizes afterwards.\n\nOr maybe because I came from the early days of gaming where sometimes we had to be satisfied with 20 fps so I'm not seeing noticeable gains from maxing out every graphics slider."
},
{
"body": "Same thing happened to me on Genshin not long ago. New Nvidia drivers fucked everything, so I just installed a very specific version that a guy having this same very specific issue had 10 months ago."
},
{
"body": "Same thing happened to me on Genshin not long ago. New Nvidia drivers fucked everything, so I just installed a very specific version that a guy having this same very specific issue had 10 months ago."
},
{
"body": "Yea it's not only about optimization. It's about bugs too. Because I am missing an item necessary for the main quest in Act 5 and because of this I can not go further in the story. I made a ticket, but support has not responded to it for more than 36 hours."
},
{
"body": "What pc do u have bro bcs on my not so good pc game is running fine but not as smoothly as it should and its really irritating ",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It has an i9-11900H and an RTX 3050ti laptop GPU. If your PC is above recommended specs but still not running well, it's more likely to be a compatibility issue as mentioned in the post. You can try to fiddle with different settings and driver versions, or you can wait for Kuro to patch things.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I have a Acer laptop, Intel core i7-10750H 2.60 Ghz and a Nvidia Geforce RTX 2060 GPU. I just used a FPS counter and I'm pretty high 58-60 through out boss fight of inferno rider. During tactic field combat it was average 55 fps. I don't know much about computers but my stuff seems to run just fine.\n\nMy settings:\n\nGraphics Quality: Medium\n\nShadow quality: Medium\n\nSpecial effects Quality: High\n\nCapsule AO: Off\n\nVolumetric fog: On\n\nVolumetric lighting: On\n\nMotion Blur: On\n\nNvidia DLSS: Off\n\nAnti-Aliasing: On\n\nV-sync: Off\n\nNvidia reflex: On"
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Considering there is no actual texture setting (there is only one texture, no high, medium and low), no way to change fullscreen resolution, and most of the game visual/performance is heavily reliant on the LOD bias and shadows, It definitely is an oversite on Kuro's part. Like imagine a game meant for mobile phones requires something like an RTX 30 series to be playable doesn't look all that good. I have an RTX4080 and am still date facing issues which really is bugging me out and preventing me from playing the game."
},
{
"body": "That's right man, since the game runs smoothly sometimes other times its laggy and the ms get up to 500ms, I think its something with the network or a third party background process for the server connection.. I don't know but the game graphics are not the problem. "
},
{
"body": "Its definitely not an issue with the optimization of the game itself. Otherwise everyone would be experiencing these issues and people on mid/low hardware wouldn't be able to play at all.\n\nIts a simple case of Kuro not being able to test out every single phone/PC hardware combination/driver version out there. Of course they could have done a better job but keep in mind that this is multi-platform release.\n\nThat being said people are just using \"optimization\" as a general term to refer to the ongoing performance issues.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Man pls don't tell it's not about optimisation....... I changed its resolution from 100 to 60 which is equivalent to 0.6 in genshin .... Still it ran at less than 20 fps .... Then I did some modifications in Engine.ini which literally made it look like some 2010 game ...... In GameBar the GPU usage was 40-50% still I got lags with avg 25fps ..... I have a low-end pc but I run genshin in mid settings with 45 fps ..... So even with 2010 like graphics in wuthering waves ..... It couldn't reach 30 fps even in windowed mode .... So ofc it's Optimisation issue right."
}
]
},
{
"body": "Thanks for being polite about it. Am a mobile user, just the other day someone told that using phones means it's my fault and us phone users (and/or PC users with low to mid laptops) are the one to blame as they're not the target customer. \n\nIt has become considerably better than yesterday so I can't wait for more."
},
{
"body": "ugly game stuck in 1768x922 on a 2060 x 1080screen because apparently its too hard for a game in 2024 to not grey out the option to let you choose your resolution ."
}
]
}