Rufous

{
  "post": {
    "title": "Multiplayer gaming too stressful?",
    "selftext": "Does anyone else find multiplayer gaming too stressful? Don't get me wrong, I generally enjoy being competitive, improving my skills, facing real humans. I've also played RTS games like aoe3 at a quite good level way back in the day.\n\nHowever, nowadays I just can't really handle the pressure of multiplayer, particularly RTS games. While it gives me a great adrenaline rush - much more so than even the best offline game - and winning feels exhilarating, it also really taxes my body and mind. If I lose, I feel really bad and while I'm not playing I think about it very often. This also affects my health to a degree and makes falling asleep harder.\n\nAdditionally, I have a real job and life, so I cannot justify obsessing over gaining ranking in a computer game. For me, multiplayer games often turn from a fun pasttime into a job of sorts. \n\nDoes anyone else know this feeling?",
    "url": "https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/hzwza5/multiplayer_gaming_too_stressful/"
  },
  "comments": [
    {
      "body": "My problem with multiplayer games is the immense learning curve I have to get over to be even remotely decent. Once I am decent I can handle winning and losing no problem and I can start to enjoy myself, but in some games it can take me 100's of hours of \"play\" to even begin to be competitive and those 100's of hours are way too much like work. I play games to escape from work and responsibility for a little while, so I dont play anything multiplayer at all anymore. I dont have time or energy for that and I frankly cant handle the stress anymore.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "[deleted]",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "That's why I love BR games so much. My friends and I can hop on and mess around without ruining the game for other people. And since BR games have randomness you don't have worry about things like map knowledge. No more spending hours learning smoke throws in CSGO. It's a much more relaxing experience overall.",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "Yeah I think that’s why br games have been so popular. It’s a good blend of casual and competitive. You don’t have to train and practice to be good enough to have fun."
                }
              ]
            },
            {
              "body": "That's what I enjoyed most about CS (1.6 and Source) was that it was *pure skill* and everyone joins the game with the exact same resources and it's up to you to save up for a better weapon rather than just paying to win or getting the benefit of grinding long term points to unlock better weapons or tools at the start of a new match.\n\nThe Battlefront type games where the more you play the better weapons you unlock is such total bullshit because newbies are not only outclassed in skill but also in equipment making it doubly unfun to get constantly murdered.",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "That’s also why I really love the classic Halo games before 4, everyone starts with the same weapons. You gotta have the skill to get good with the starting weapons and the map knowledge to know where the pickups are. The only unlocks were for armor which is purely cosmetic.",
                  "replies": [
                    {
                      "body": "I also found a great CS clan that had a bunch of retired military dudes that ran a REALLY tight ship so even our casual gameplay on the server was 100% objective driven with alltalk turned off and everyone communicating and working towards the goal.\n\nYou'd  even get chastised for knifing opponents in the back because unless you were ACTUALLY 100% out of ammo it was an inexcusable risk to attempt that move just for flair.\n\nI absolutely loved that sense of tight teamwork and getting to know other players over time and I've never been able to have that kind of experience since.  I could have a great time just sitting quietly guarding hostages while listening for footsteps or gunfire, comparing with what my minimap was showing, and reporting enemy movement to the rest of my team.",
                      "replies": [
                        {
                          "body": "[deleted]",
                          "replies": [
                            {
                              "body": "It was awesome and has basically ruined multiplayer gaming for me because I know just how deep that bond can be if you get enough people together *regularly* who are all on board with **really** playing the game.\n\nThere were probably maybe 30 or so regulars on the server(s) so you basically know everyone on the by name, develop rapport/history, learn to **really** shittalk when you've got so much experience together, etc.  I was pretty terrible at CS when I met that crew but spent so much time playing almost specifically because of that environment that I got good enough to operate as a backup fillin for their CAL team and played in a handful of official tournament matches which was pretty intense.\n\nThe idea of just getting thrown into random matchmaking lobbies with no consequence and no chance of really getting to know anyone?  Blech.\n\nI just checked our old website/forum and it's being redirected to another forum by a different name with ArmA as the only forum category that's active and I don't recognize any of the recent posters.\n\n:(  Feels bad man.",
                              "replies": [
                                {
                                  "body": "Matchmaking has ruined gaming communities.  I met a couple cool dudes in CS:S back in the day and then before you knew it we were running our own server, plus a website, forum, etc.  We were a fun group of people so the community grew from people chancing on to our server, liking the vibes, going to the website, etc.  Those days are long gone :("
                                }
                              ]
                            }
                          ]
                        },
                        {}
                      ]
                    },
                    {}
                  ]
                },
                {
                  "body": "This is kinda why I like Battlefield. Sure, you can unlock more guns through grinding, but the starter weapons are usually some of the best, or you'll unlock the most well rounded weapon for your kit within a few levels. Very rarely do I play BF3 and need anything except the M16, or BF4 and ever need anything unlocked after the M416.\n\nThe skill curve with weapons in that franchise are about figuring out which attachments work best with your chosen weapon rather than trying to grind for the last weapon unlocked in each kit."
                }
              ]
            },
            {
              "body": "this is exactly me with Rocket league , had to quit and just binge single player games. so much more relaxing"
            },
            {}
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "This is absolutely rainbow six siege. I tried getting into it and i feel like I can’t go anywhere on the map without dying from someone staring through 3 different holes in the wall to shoot half a pixel of my head off so I end up just staying on point or following my teammates. Almost every game I get killed by someone in a way/location I didn’t even know was possible.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "Yup. I said fuck that game and have been way happier since.",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "It was fun back in the day.\n\nNow it's like Overwatch and you have to know the abilities of 25 other characters.",
                  "replies": [
                    {
                      "body": "Totally get that feel. It was the same thing with LoL, or even StarCraft. I was plat 1 and diamond 1, respectively, in those games. Hell my QM MMR was Grand Master in HotS for a while.   In the end I just stopped with the competitive games. If I can't play casually then fuck it.\n\nI feel like a lot of these hyper competitive games were fun \"back in the day\" (read: at launch). But that was because you played with your buddies and no one really knew all the \"secret spots\"  or the hypermeta combo/whatever. It's the weird shit that's fun. But yea there is so much to learn to play a game where if you lose you spend more time watching that actually playing.\n\nHonestly the only head to head games I still play are Battlefield (and not since BF5 launch), and the odd game of ARAM or HotS of my friends ask."
                    },
                    {
                      "body": "It looks really annoying, now that there are character abilities specifically designed to screw with your assumptions of how the game works, like being invisible to cameras or deploying a hologram."
                    }
                  ]
                }
              ]
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "Not only do a lot of multiplayer games have a steep learning curve, I found that even the community can be pretty hostile towards newer players. I remember trying out league for the first time in high school and saying in chat, “hey I’m new so plz be patient with me”, and then got told to uninstall because I was ruining their game. I never played it again until recently (I’m 23 now) and the community is still as unwelcoming as ever. The only reason I even manage to have fun in that game is to completely turn off all chat and team chat.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "This is exactly what puts me off multiplayer games. The fact that it will take time to get to a level where you know the game and can play it well, but in the meantime you just get abuse from both team mates and opponents for not being good enough. I don’t need that kind of stress when I’m gaming."
            },
            {
              "body": "This is why I'm hesitant to try Valorant lmao. The game just came out, but idk how to play it and I don't want anyone to give me shit for being new (even though it literally JUST came out)",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "If it helps, there's a mode called Spike Fever or Spike Rush that most people play super casually. Everyone starts the round with the same gun and there are orbs that help whichever team picks them up which might make it easier on ya.\n\nIf you wanna try it sometime I would suggest going to the practice range to test the different agents > Find one that you like > Practice his/her powers on the range for a bit > Play Spike Rush until you're comfy > Hop on your first actual match.\n\nNote: This is just if you feel comfy that way. If not just play a match right away. I hope you have fun regardless! :)"
                },
                {}
              ]
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "I feel the same. I even get that on some single player as well. Tried out Stellaris and have played about 6-8 hours before I realized I still don't know what the fuck I'm doing..... So what are you playing instead?",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "I find it's better to approach Stellaris like it's DnD. You're not there to \"win\", you're there to experience an interesting story using a character (in this case a star empire) that you created. Not knowing what you're doing creates lots of opportunity for interesting things to happen, so in that sense you're already an expert.\n\nI definitely understand where you're coming from, though. Learning a new game takes effort, and I have lots of really interesting games in my backlog that I don't play because I'm just so damn tired."
            },
            {
              "body": "Haven't played Stellaris but I've recently started playing other Paradox games co-op and it's a lot of fun. I highly recommend it as a way to learn their games."
            },
            {
              "body": "That's strategy games for you. I budget at least 20 hours to begin to learn the systems and get a grasp of what I'm doing. That makes it harder for me to pick up new strategy games, so I often find myself going back to the ones I already know. Around the 6-8 hour mark where you are is usually when I start to understand just how complicated the systems are and start to feel a bit lost, but if you push through that I can't think of a more rewarding (and un-stressful) genre than grand strategy games."
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "yup, \"learning\" a new game can be a pain in the butt.  I don't have (nor want to have) hours and hours to spend learning a game in order to have fun"
        },
        {
          "body": "But aren't there always players at lower levels, so that if you're not great, you can still have a competitive game? Or is the floor way too high in these games?",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "For me the floor is just too high. even with low levels and good matchmaking systems my beginner level is generally well below what the game assumes a beginner level is supposed to be just because it takes me time to get used to the controls, the environment, the mechanics, before I can even really start playing. That means that because my beginner is so far below other beginners, I end up just dying. Alot. Making it even more difficult for me to achieve a level of comfort in those areas so I can even start practicing the actual game. \n\nUsed to be single player campaigns of multiplayer games could help with this by familiarizing me with the controls and mechanics but even that isnt enough to allow me to be competetive, even on a beginner's level, in most games anymore. \n\nAnd then theres the focus on just multiplayer games now and im sunk because I dont have any opportunity to practice before meeting real people. I dont even try anymore.",
              "replies": [
                {}
              ]
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "This is why the only multiplayer games I play are Battlefield, COD and Halo. Just casual fun."
        },
        {
          "body": "If you want to be competitive at anything it will take work, that's the nature of competition.  It's not the game it's the fact that the level of skill needed to be competitive is driven by the playerbases skill.  If the bar of competition is high then you won't be able to reach it unless you become good enough yourself.",
          "replies": [
            {}
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "I've found that games that have a single player option that is still fun help a lot. I can put time in on the single player, and since the multiplayer is optional we just do it for fun, not for competition."
        },
        {
          "body": "This is why I’ve really come to appreciate having ranking or ELO systems in multiplayer games. Overwatch has a transparent ranking system for its competitive mode, but also a hidden ranking system for quick play mode (which is essentially the same rules as competitive without your true rank on the line). As I’ve played the game more and improved, my true and hidden rank also improve, ensuring I only get matched with players of a similar rank.\n\nThe value of this system became incredibly apparent to me when I started playing Overwatch on the Switch. While my mechanics weren’t great because it was a new platform for me, my knowledge of the game was so high that I was basically carrying entire games. The ranking system quickly recognized that I was at a higher skill than the rank it sets for new players and I started having competitive matches with players of a similar skill after only a few hours of playing."
        },
        {
          "body": "Skill is relative. There's always someone better or worse than you. I believe as long as you're playing someone close to your skill level (and preferably a little weaker), it'll be competitively fun. Hence why good matchmaking is critical to competitive multiplayer.\n\nI find the more I play, the less I can handle losing. My ego inevitably grows.\n\nGood game design teaches the player and nurtures improvement without the process feeling like a chore. Arguably here is a divide between game and sport.",
          "replies": [
            {}
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": ">but in some games it can take me 100's of hours of \"play\" to even begin to be competitive\n\nI literally can not imagine a game like this. Can you give an example? It takes less than ten hours of play to be able to enjoy pretty much every multiplayer game. Fighting games might have a steeper learning curve, but maybe 20 hours before you can hold your own against other low level players.",
          "replies": [
            {}
          ]
        },
        {}
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "It really depends on the kind of online game: CO-OP with friends, or playing on a team with friends is great, and even facing each other brings out a lot of friendly competitiveness, but most online games are desperate to be the next big E-sport; long gone are the days of ranked playlists in Halo 3 offering a more competitive slant for the average player, and MLG tournaments/playlists being there for the really serious guys, now even your average player has to cope with 15 year olds from Norwich trying to go pro.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "I think that's the main problem with most Multiplayer games nowadays, since there's an actual way to measure people's skills (rank) the stakes are way higher therefore more pressure and stress from self and from teammates, so while winning feels good, losing which happens normally most of the time unless you're the best of the best feels definitely bad. Back in the day in the CS 1.6 lobbies for instance you didn't know who you would be paired with and the only indicator that somebody was better than you was their k/d at the end of the match, however that was real fun.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "COD was pretty gnarly in that regard this most recent one.  If you did well a game or two in a row your next match would dump you in several matches which were all above your level and you'd get stomped several matches in a row only to fall back down to a tier where you were good again and you'd do well.  It was jarring during long sessions to have that rough ebb and flow hitting you over the head the whole time.  In old lobby systems things felt way more natural.  Mid tier often, sometimes play well, sometimes poorly.  It felt more like just playing a game and not playing against an algorithm.",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "> It felt more like just playing a game and not playing against an algorithm.\n\nThis a million times. Such an amazing way to word it."
                },
                {
                  "body": "\"skill\" based matchmaking\n\nAnd then it puts me and my buddy (1.8 kdr on average) into a game with 4 teammates that go 2 and 20.\n\n\nOverwatch seemed like it used to do this.\n\nThe other team would be 6 guys, let's say rated 5 out of 10, average players.\n\nThen me and my buddy, probably rated 8 out of 10, would get paired with 4 people rated 3 out of 10.\n\nBoth teams, on average, are rated at about 5 out of 10, but playing with 4 potatoes is no fucking fun at all.\n\nAnd it's apparently impossible for the algorithm to find 10 other guys rated 8 out of 10 to play with.",
                  "replies": [
                    {
                      "body": "The algorithm likely has no trouble doing it.  It should be pretty trivial actually once the hard(er) part of training a model to predict \"skill\" is generated.  That's not really hard either with how analytics heavy multiplayer games are nowadays.  \n\nThe sadder part is is that I'd guess that their metrics show higher retention with a lower wait time so you ease up on the strict skill based matchmaking and let it be rougher and possibly even ease up on the latency.  Skill, latency, and wait time are really the only factors in match making unless they got into like playstyle / class preference too.  I'm guessing they target keeping the wait time as low as possible as an important goal.  Without long wait times to optimize things more, you probably just don't have the right pieces at hand to make those games."
                    }
                  ]
                }
              ]
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": ">  but most online games are desperate to be the next big E-sport; long gone are the days of ranked playlists in Halo 3 offering a more competitive slant for the average player, and MLG tournaments/playlists being there for the really serious guys, now even your average player has to cope with 15 year olds from Norwich trying to go pro.\n\nA M E N. I have been playing online and offline games for a while and something really changed. Esports has been the downfall of a lot of online gaming. All these teens now see the million dollar prize pools and think \"that could be me\" and try hard every game to the point that if you don't do the same you get rolled. And keeping up with these adderall snorters is just too exhausting. Then factor in match making algorithms are getting better at making money by forcing grinds to reach a rank you already earned (mobas) or making safe space lobbies for really bad players so they never have to get challenged. This leaves the above average players but not pro level in a weird spot where they are not good enough to go pro but also are too good to get the fun lobbies in match making.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "As you say, these E-Sports work on a talent show like founding lie that anyone anywhere can make it, but it's simply not true. It's about pouring tens of thousands of hours into the game, learning every minute detail and learning to work to an expert level with your team. It's not fun. I can't imagine playing the same game constantly for this long and if anyone is 18 or below and reading this then believe me: you don't want to do this."
            },
            {
              "body": "This. I really don't mean to boast but I consider myself to be very good at games: stealth games and grand strategy games especially, along with Halo 1 - 3, Doom and other classic shooters, so I constantly get matched against pros that pulverise me, but the average players are usually just not as good. I've taken to playing games like Arma 3 as a result, where the PvE is very tough and you're forced to rely on more than your skill with a gun."
            },
            {}
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "Come play CoD MW.  As long as you don't mindless sprint down the same lane 6 times in a row, dying in the same location each time, then you are miles ahead of the competition.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "I used to play it; barely play CoD and not a long time fan, still found myself first or second each match for this very reason"
            },
            {
              "body": "Because that CoD was made specifically for bad players with its overly strict SBMM and camper rewarding changes. You can read the million threads on why it's sucked the fun out of it for everyone that even just slightly above average."
            }
          ]
        },
        {}
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "Absolutely. I’m 33, so multiplayer/online gaming I got to see in its infancy and watch it grow. I haven’t played an online game since 2011 (the only one I ever cared for was RDR1 online (that was truly a great experience.)\n\nI tried my hand at games like competitive shooters such as Blops1 but I stopped when I realized I wasn’t having fun AND on top of that, it was overriding my anxiety medication and making it worse. \n\nSo, my friend, you aren’t alone. I came to that same realization: I come home from work after a stressful day, do all my chores, and sit down to play a game and relax, not to have my BP spike and get mad at strangers.\n\n\nI don’t even have my PS4 connected via internet anymore (the only time I do is to update the system occasionally or to update a patch on a game if I am really into it. This is why I hope Singleplayer never dies, because if it ever does, my favorite hobby is in peril.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "Very similar here. I used to love pushing content, playing lots of Overwatch or League, now I'm 35 and I'm looking through steam filters for \"chill\" and \"relaxing\". Some multiplayer games still have some mindless content (soloable MMORPGs for example). I still enjoy a good challenge in my decision-making (Civ, Roguelikes/lites) but in a multiplayer context, no thanks.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "What games are you into right now?\n\nI find story driven games are a good solo escape. Bioshock Infinite was a great title. I don't enjoy grindy games like Skyrim though. There isn't enough thought power going into the game to make it enjoyable, vs Morrowind which is the same concept except there are no aids to tell you that you're doing the right thing. Firewatch is another good story. Little nightmares is a quirky atmospheric side scroller. Dishonored was another solid title.",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "Right now I've been logging an hour or two in Risk of Rain 2 every night.\n\nIt varies a lot, looking over my steam backlog and the titles that I've played the most I tend to favor Roguelike/Roguelite games: Risk of Rain, Risk of Rain 2, FTL, Binding of Isaac, Everspace, Slay the Spire. It's a personal preference to mechanics vs story, so not surprising these games have been my most played versus story games.\n\nI wouldn't necessarily say these games are chill/relaxing, but offer a single player challenge and often have good goals via unlockable content without that multiplayer stress. That said some days are just too hectic to even want to play something fast-paced like Risk of Rain 2 and I still look for a chill/relaxing experience. Other games like that I've enjoyed are like Banished, From Dust, Stardew Valley, Spring Falls, Elite Dangerous (VR + HOTAS), Planet Zoo or The Long Dark which are more in line with a chill/relaxing vibe.\n\nI picked up Firewatch recently actually but haven't played it yet.",
                  "replies": [
                    {}
                  ]
                }
              ]
            },
            {}
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "Single player won’t ever die, this thread proves that we need single player games maybe even more than multiplayer, or maybe just a good co op experience with friends then worrying about some meta for a multiplayer game that’s gonna get replaced with the next big multiplayer game"
        },
        {
          "body": "I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. As I grow older, I'm finding myself less willing to put in the hours to be competitive. In many online games, there's also a lot of grind, and I just don't have the time for that anymore. If I'm playing a single player game, and it tells me I need to do some repetitive task for three hours, I'm usually busting out cheat engine."
        },
        {
          "body": "44 here and you missed things like BattleTech and Star Trek PvP MUSE/MUSH text based games.  Those were the infancy of multiplayer, and they were just as adrenaline filled as Rainbow 6 Seige.  Anyways, personally I stick with PvE, it is less stress for me, and co-op gets that human factor going to rack up better scores and such."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "In my experience playing Tekken and Rocket League competitively, you have to put a serious amount of time into a game before the anxiety/nerves go away. Like 500+ hours. I can see why people tend to shy away from highly competitive and skill based multilayer for that reason alone.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "The learning curve in competitive Tekken is insane. I'm one of the few people who actually plays Tekken pretty much exclusively for its offline content. I enjoy leveling up my character, unlocking new endings and outfits, playing casual split-screen matches with friends etc. because that's why I enjoyed the games back in the PS1/PS2 days before online multiplayer even existed in the series. As a result, now it's a core feature, I don't care about it. The learning curve is just another reason for me not to bother with it. The amount of time I'd have to sink into the game to get even half way decent is ludicrous. It would basically have to become my sole ~~game~~ hobby. If I'm gonna spend that much time getting better at something, I'd rather get better at something more substantial, like real martial arts. \n\nBesides, all I really wanna do is chill and beat the shit out of someone for 20 minutes. It's cathartic. I'll learn a couple moves, but I really like to just figure it out by button mashing. I'm honestly completely lost whenever someone uses technical Tekken terminology because, to me, that just isn't the game I play. I guess all of this really shows how great Tekken is at appealing to different audiences, which is something a lot of fighting games struggle with.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "I think Tekken is complex enough to sometimes scare away newer players but rewarding enough at first to feel really nice. You can land fairly good combos with only a little bit of practice if you want to look up that info, and you can worry about proper punishment and technical gameplay aspects later like frametraps and spacing etc. It's when you get to the amateur level where you actually care about those things and realize how difficult they are to implement in your game on the fly and how punishing it is when you fail that the game because super difficult. It really is like a real life skill in the sense that it requires a LOT of physical practice to become consistent, and I get why a lot of people would enjoy doing that or prefer to spend their time learning an instrument or martial arts in real life."
            },
            {
              "body": "Tekken is great with this until you get serious and then suddenly it's like balance of character, match up favor, and some chars(you might love their fighting style/design) that are just lacking to tools to survive unless your opponent didn't know the match up since it's too niche."
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": " For me RL  was always just a relaxation game AFTER playing a stressful game like league of legends. So getting high or low rank did not really matter in that game to me. And it helped because i grazed diamond for a bit the first day playing ranked solo 3s because i just played like it was normals. But for some reason solo 3s had long ass queue times, and regular ranked 3s as a solo was bullshit because i kept facing 3 man premades with 2 solo teammates. Also bronze/silver 1v1 is absolutely polluted with smurfs of plat and above skill level, gold 1v1 is literally easier."
        },
        {
          "body": "Eh, depends how seriously you're taking it. I play smash online every day and I've barely improved for a year. I know what I need to do to improve, but I just cba to practice in training mode, I'm happy just beating some people and losing to others.\n\nThen come to yugioh, I can barely even bring myself to play other people online because I care about winning too much.",
          "replies": [
            {}
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "As someone who managed to get over the online addiction because it was ruining my health and social life I urge you to quit sooner rather than later. RTS single player campaigns can be relaxing and enjoyable, so you don't have to give up on gaming completely. Sort of middle ground.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "Yeah, don't worry. I only play offline nowadays, e.g. RPGs, Total War etc."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "Yep, even when I’m dominating. My go to game was Warband and then Bannerlord more recently. \n\n9/10 matches I’d be top kills and winning but the stress of it isn’t worth it anymore. I uninstalled because it’s addictive."
    },
    {
      "body": "Yeah for sure. In fact I've pretty much stopped playing them now. Far too stressful, far too exploitative, and actually designed to be that way by the games publishers. The one or two that I still play are the ones where you can get a private lobby with just friends. Even then they still have the mechanics engineered into them to make them stressful but it's a break from all the other people.",
      "replies": [
        {}
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "I'm 39 and been playing video games for almost my entire life. I stopped playing online competitive multiplayer games maybe 8 years ago, they just stopped being fun. I always game to relax and chill out and they were not relaxing or fun. I'll still play co-op with buddies every once in a while, but co-op is the only thing I really have any interest in playing online. Halo Reach was the last competitive game I played a ton online, it was fun back then and everyone on your own team and the other team was usually very lighthearted. Since then I've stuck with Borderlands, Mass Effect multiplayer, and others where you are co-op with friends against AI since it is actually fun.\n\nedit: I fired up Overwatch once to check it out, picked a random cool looking character, played one round and my team mates booted me and told me to get lost because I picked the \"wrong\" character. Uninstalled it and haven't played online competitive since. Well that's not true, I played Destiny 1 and 2  but 99% was PvE, I never touched PvP except a couple of a gun quest that requires it.\n\nThis thread is very refreshing to see others like me that realized it just isn't fun anymore.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "What single player games have you been playing?"
        },
        {}
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "The thing I dislike most about modern online gaming is the expectation that you need to be both skilled and highly serious about the game. I don't want to do hours of research. I don't want to train. I want to be reasonably competent and have a good time."
    },
    {
      "body": "I don't know, I actually really enjoy the chaotic and unpredictable nature of multiplayer games.  Even getting steam rolled, I enjoy how unique that particular game is.\n\n​\n\nI'm 36 now and still spend a good amount of time every week playing fighting games online   \n \\-- SF5 and Tekken primarily, but still dabble with USF4 (doing some online tournaments), and just about anything else really.  \n\nAnd on top of that, have spent some time playing Battlefront 2, Titanfall 2, Doom Eternal, Rocket League.  I'm terrible at these, but still really enjoy them - the games are fun to play and it's fun to sort of play with other people.  \n\n​\n\nI find it hard to explain, but I really enjoy competition, but am not really that competitive -- like losing doesn't bother me too much (unless I know I'm getting caught by dumb stuff I know better, or dropping stuff I shouldn't).  So online games really fill that for me -- it gives me a competitive environment to play in, but if there's really no stakes if I lose.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "Wait people still play USF4?? Any chance to join in?? That Bison had the best moveset in history lmao. I felt so at home with him! Unfortunately V's moveset doesn't really vibe with me lol.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "I’m down for sets on USF4 - I mostly play on PS4 on US East Coast. I have it on PC as well, but it’s a shitty laptop that i rarely hook up to the Ethernet so probably not ideal. \n\nI actually really like Bison in V, but I’m a Honda main through and through. \n\n\nhttps://www.twitch.tv/videos/684717677 that should be the VOD from the tourney 2 weeks ago. It was like 6 or so people so small, but still fun to hang out and run the sets.",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "Awesome! I'll take a look :D I play on PC not sure if I have it on ps4 but I'll pm ya if I find it! Dont really use my ps4 much lol. Ty!!"
                }
              ]
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "That last paragraph is perfect on its own, and describes me really well, too. Thanks for that simple, yet effective statement. :) (It's only game, why you haff be mad? Literally, lol.)"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "Yes, it gives me anxiety for some reason. I played Halo 2 online when Xbox Live first launched, that was fun because it was new to me. Now the whole experience is toxic and frustrating most of the time. I remember playing og Gears of War back in the day and the people were rude as fuck. Every time I've ever played any Gears online I've had a bad experience. Not to mention the online is just shotguns. That was really the series that put a permanent bad taste in my mouth. There have been some games that I will try online because friends want to play, but it's usually such a daunting experience to learn map routes and whatever else you need to get good. Which is so different from what I want out of video games. I don't have the time, I've always been a single player focused person. I'm almost always playing  whatever the new single player game is, and there are a lot of them lol.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "[deleted]",
          "replies": [
            {}
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "Nowadays I can only enjoy multiplayer games (even PvE) if I am playing with friends - otherwise I just don't find it enjoyable at all, even if I do actually like the game itself. Systems are just too stressful, toxicity, potential for hackers/smurfs, random teammates not cooperating or going for kills instead of objectives, etc."
    },
    {
      "body": "I wouldn't call them stressful so much as overly competitive.  Multiplayer is oversaturated with those who devote 8+ hours per day every single day on playing just one game.  The skill difference between that and someone who might load up for an hour or two after work a couple days per week is immense.  And while some might enjoy simply being able to participate, many don't like to be destroyed in competition day-in and day-out, match after match.\n\nPretty well the reason I ignore multiplayer games today, and especially multiplayer only.  There is no way I can afford the time necessary to get good, even if I wanted to grind like that just to enjoy my games.  Which is fine, that's simply to my tastes these days, but I've come to find that multiplayer titles do not, will never, cater to me and are not being created for or sold to people like me."
    },
    {
      "body": "In my opinion, if a game is causing that amount of stress, the payoff (rush from winning) isn't worth it.  I haven't had this feeling myself but I can certainly empathize.  It sounds miserable and I don't play games to be miserable.  Challenge is one thing but anger/stress like you're describing is something else altogether."
    },
    {
      "body": "I usually don’t play multiplayers that also require to work as a team, because of the pressure of knowing that if you screw up then your teammates are gonna get mad at you and sometimes they let you know not in the most polite of ways."
    },
    {
      "body": "[deleted]",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "It's pretty sad that a subject as broad as multiplayer games are equated with obsessing over gaining rank. It's also sad because it implies that if you have hobbies you clearly don't have a real life or a real job.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "Huh? I was just talking about my experience. If I play an online RTS with a ranking system, I will somewhat care about it and obsess over it even. That's something I cant really justify."
            }
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "I used to play but that all started dying down about 6-8 years ago.  I used to play on good old community ran servers, but now it's almost all matchmaking.  The only community servers I get on now are in csgo and Arma 3.  Other than that I play coop games, I have halo on PC but I don't install the multiplayer modes.  I just bought the crash and Spyro bundle and I'm having a blast, I also still play a lot of retro games so maybe look into that.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "If you want to install the multiplayer of Halo it's got a lot of less competetive modes like big team battle and action sack (weird games like only plasma pistols and overshields or hammer king of the hill, etc)"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "I don't mind playing an occasional round with friends, but I am a huge fan of the Pause button.  I really, really like to be able to pause a game and walk away.  Even in games like Fallout 76 and Division I rarely team up with anybody because I want to play at my pace without the pressure you mentioned."
    },
    {
      "body": "The good thing about FPS games for 99% of them is the skills carry over, you just need to learn some nuances from one game to the next. I've played multiplayer FPS games since Quake in 1996, yet people were so surprised that I was really good at Rainbow Six Siege when I would find groups to play with, despite it having this \"huge learning curve\" (I see this phrase for that game all over the subreddit, YouTube, etc) and I only had 20 or 30 hours in the game. People talk about having to watch YouTubes to learn how to play it and practicing this and that... I mean... I just go in there clicking heads and made it to the second highest rank (platinum? diamond? something like that I don't remember it was a couple years ago). It's really not that complicated as people make it out to be. Yet I can tell by the sound of their voice on comms that they are REALLY stressing mentally while playing. \n\nan RTS game on the other hand, you are all-hands-on-deck concentrating and making sure at least 5 or 6 things are all going on concurrently as they should be. And you don't really have a choice, because that is just the nature of those games. You can't really relax or not be firing on full cylinders mentally and do well at an RTS online, unless your opponent is new/not good at all.\n\nSo I think it definitely depends on two factors when playing multiplayer games: the type of game, and the mindset of the player. So in that sense, I think multiplayer games are only stressful if you let them be/you choose to play games that are stressful (like RTS games)."
    },
    {
      "body": "Yes, I'm sure we've all been there. Raging at being killed, blaming lag, teammates, your dog, hacks, anything other than yourself. Breaking things, swearing you are quitting for good and then going back online within the hour. Quitting games you perform badly to preserve your respectable K/D ratio. It can certainly lead to obsessive, negative behaviour over things that don't actually matter one bit.\n\nI don't play online anymore. The last game I seriously played online was Rocket League. I kept lagging, getting paired with terrible teammates, my dog kept distracting me and my opponents were definitely using cheats.\n\nWait a minute, I don't even have a dog...",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "Cheating is unheard of in Rocket League but smurfing is a serious problem, that's probably what you dealt with a lot if I had to guess.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "[deleted]",
              "replies": [
                {}
              ]
            },
            {
              "body": "I don't even know how people would cheat. Having unlimited boost I guess?"
            }
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "In decades of playing video games, I've never once enjoyed PvP, in any game, in any form.\n\nWhen I play PvE, my win/loss (death) record is around 99%. I'd need that kind of success rate to enjoy PvP, and that's never going to happen.\n\nI find coop equally stressful when it comes to raids/boss fights. If I screw up and cause the fight to fail, I feel awful for days. I don't want that feeling from playing a game."
    },
    {
      "body": "I do more so now than in the past.\n\nI don't know if it is matchmaking, the way ranking systems work or just the culture but there seems to be so much toxicity surrounding performance nowadays.\n\nIn the past, some people were good and others bad however it didn't matter as much because the modes and matchmaking seemed to fit. This was before esports."
    },
    {
      "body": "I'm 30 years old and I don't play competitive multiplayer games anymore. It's just not fun for me at this point in my life - it means investing a bunch of time to get good at a game. With matchmaking systems, you can find some where you can hop in and have a good time at a lower skill level - but still there is always a push to get better, and I don't want to invest the time in one game to do that just to compete with the 11-year-olds who have spent all summer playing.\n\nThe only competitive multiplayer game I've played for a good amount of time in the last 5+ years is Rocket League, which I had my fun with, played hundreds of hours, but hit a wall skill-wise and eventually called it quits.\n\nThe last time I got into a competitive multiplayer game was StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty, which I played competitively for a while and was one of the highest ranked random players. But that was 10 years ago and I was in college... different time, different place.\n\nI get the appeal of those games, certainly. But as I've aged, I've just lost interest. I still actually REALLY enjoy multiplayer games - but I want to play co-operatively with other people, or play in a more open environment (something like Sea of Thieves for example, or free roam in GTA V though I haven't played that in a long while) that isn't so win/loss focused. Co-op and custom games in Halo: MCC are awesome, but I'm not so much for the competitive multiplayer even though I LOVED that back in the day.",
      "replies": [
        {}
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "I think there is a difference between multiplayer gaming and competitive gaming. I do not generally engage in any PvP games or activities in games because I find that too stressful. I will engage in multiplayer gaming that is not competitive though, but only after I've played through any story bits by myself because I like to do that stuff at my own pace and not get dragged through it by people who just want to get to end-game.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "This is definitely part of my problem, I don't enjoy games when I play with friends who already know the game in and out and push to get to the endgame. I'd rather play at my own pace then join them later once I know what I'm doing."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "I was a big SC2 but for about 6 years, and it was difficult to play multiplayer casually because of the things you mention. People grow and change, priorities change. So I've found myself enjoying more single-player games that I can play with a controller. If I do play multiplayer these days, it's mostly co-op stuff like BroForce or couch games to play with my wife (she's a wicked Dr. Mario player).",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "Sc2 is a brutal game even as far as multiplayer games go. The balance gets tweaked a few times a year and after Blizzcon there's usually a larger balance patch that affects units and abilities substantially. It makes it hard to get back into if you haven't been following the meta, even on top of being a very mechanically demanding game with a crazy high skill ceiling.\n\nI still enjoy playing it but I doubt I'll ever rank above diamond. Just takes too much work to be truly good.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "Diamond is pretty good. You're like in the top 10% of 1v1 players",
              "replies": [
                {}
              ]
            }
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "I like open world online games such as red dead or gta, where you can just chill with friends or on your own. There’s no pressure to be good unless you’re in a mission, which is just against AI. (I don’t play death matches)"
    },
    {
      "body": "I just dont get how people play the same game over and over gor years. Perdonally i've played league since release but i've had more than my fill of normals so i just play aram now or when a new champion comes out.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "I don't get it either. The only series I've ever invested that much time into was Super Smash Bros. (Melee/Brawl specifically), and even then I'm bored of it now. Online multiplayer isn't great a lot of the time unless you can invest the time in, and I'm just not willing to invest all that time in."
        },
        {}
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "My buddy keeps tryin to get me to join him on CS:GO and... Hunt... (what’s it called?) but I’m not into online gaming. I’m into games with story. Something that goes from start to finish. Nioh and Nioh 2, The Last of Us 1 and 2, Final Fantasy, Ori, Bloodstained, Hollow Knight, Mass Effect, etc. I want accomplishment. I want to conquer. I don’t need to reign. I want my gold or platinum then move on. Even though I stream my gaming, I don’t make money from it. Online gaming doesn’t give me that satisfaction. I feel ya bro.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "Hunt: Showdown, I'm guessing.\n\nHonestly, probably got the best audio I've heard in a multiplayer game in a long time. There is zero mistaking which direction a sound came from. Definitely adds to the experience.",
          "replies": [
            {}
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "I feel pressure when people start being friendly and want me to join a clan or whatever. It feels like too much pressure and commitment that I know I won't be able to keep up."
    },
    {
      "body": "It sounds less like you need to avoid multiplayer games and more like you should avoid competitive games. If you want to be social with your gaming there's lots of co-op games that you can play with your friends so that you don't have to get stressed.\n\nAt least, I assume you're playing multiplayer games because you have friends you want to play with."
    },
    {
      "body": "I can relate when I play Hunt: Showdown with my friends. I have to prepare myself mentally and during a match. I stress too much for me to relax in that game."
    },
    {
      "body": "I 100% agree with you. Except for me it’s sports games. I can lose all day at COD and just shrug it off but if I give up a big play in madden or the show, my day is ruined. So I learned to just stay away."
    },
    {
      "body": "I have felt the same way. specially on mobas where team coordination is a must. this applies to fps like CS:GO as well. \n\nthis made me try to play mmorpg again and im having a blast. i get the same rewarding feeling when i get a level, clear a dungeon or just by getting new gear. \n\ni do still play those games but with the condition that i get to share the salt with my friends :p"
    },
    {
      "body": "I like multiplayer games in that you can have a lot of gameplay for a short time vs single player where 3 hours can just be trekking across a boring map or just a bunch of cutscenes.\n\nI know there are opposite examples for singleplayer games, but with multiplayer, I enjoy being in games where there is room for error, like team fortress 2. Games like overwatch or rainbow 6 are too toxic."
    },
    {
      "body": "That's part of the reason our group is playing \"traitor\" kind of games now. Like Deceit, Project Winter and more recently Among Us.\n\nThe learning curve is very small, the games are short, and it is so satisfactory to lie to your friends when you are the traitor, and on the other hand, try to figure out who the traitor is when you are innocent.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "Successfully manipulating people/the situation was one of the things I *really* enjoyed while playing Trouble in Terrorist Town. After watching the likes of Seananners and friends playing it, I wanted to try it out for myself. Admittedly, their playstyles are much more metagamey and/or skit oriented, especially in their later videos where they're only playing amongst themselves rather than with pubs. But nevertheless, the experience can be a whole lot of fun. You've just got to find a server that doesn't have hideously overpowered traitor gadgets/weapons and doesn't allow custom player models/random \"accessories\" on the player model.\n\nMy favourite all time traitor play was killing a fellow traitor who had been called out while attempting to murder someone, being declared \"proven\" by the detective and proceeding to just sit back and do nothing other than be a \"good little innocent\". My (incorrect) status and the detective's misplaced trust meant I was never suspected and any time my name came up, it was quickly shot down. Eventually, as all games go, people's paranoia started boiling over and they all started killing one another, culminating in a final shootout between the detective and the final innocent. The detective won the fight and I stepped out the door the moment it was over, Desert Eagle in hand and immediately shot him in the head, securing the win for the traitors. Many cheers from my dead brethren for pulling off a beautiful long con were heard.\n\nGod, I miss that fucking game."
        },
        {
          "body": "I love Among Us. My friends and I started playing that due to its similarity to Push The Button in Jackbox, and it's been really fun. The learning curve not being huge has really helped with my anxiety over learning multiplayer games as I almost always feel outclassed in multiplayer games. SCP: Secret Laboratory gave off similar vibes, although the voice chat with random people online did make it a little more intensive, and it has a greater learning curve."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "This has been an issue for me for a really long time and I decided over a decade ago that multiplayer isn't for me.\n\nA few of my good friends were in a competitive Battlefield 2 clan back in the mid 00's and they would always ask me to come play with them. They would scrim every few days, but they would play on their server for literal hours most nights of the week. After I'd been in college all week and working the evenings, I just didn't have the time to devote to it to the point where it would be fun. As it is I felt like the dragging balls of the team because I didn't make the game my 2nd job. Getting wiped back and forth across the map just isn't fun, so I made the decision that trying to keep up just isn't worth it. Since then its been pretty much all single player for me.\n\nEDIT: One of my all time favorites in the past decade is Dark Souls. I can't even stand invading or getting invaded for the same reason. Someone's made it their job to be (probably) annoying and murder me. I don't have the time, desire, or knowledge to be competitive so it isn't even fun for me to get waxed over and over again. I usually play offline."
    },
    {
      "body": "I'm with you there on the adrenaline rush -- and it's exactly why I don't like most multiplayer gaming. My body responds really badly to adrenaline and it leaves me feeling awful: jittery, paranoid, fatigued and snippy. I'll just play something low-key instead (it's why I don't like novacaine at the dentist, the syringe contains a small amount of adrenaline)."
    },
    {
      "body": "I always feel stressed in playing some of my favorite games as well, I wish I could play Rainbow6 as casually as possible but I find it so difficult to actually have any fun unless I put on my headset and sit up to try hard even on casual. Then other games like Overwatch or Modern Warfare become increasingly difficult when the player skill is so crazy that unless you consistently play, you’ll find yourself on the receive end of some cracked player who just plays it all day. I just wish some multiplayer games would be able to fix the issue for people who want a really casual mp game or mode that doesn’t really have to rely to hard on how many hours you put in the game. It’ll never happen of course because with any multiplayer game anyone and everyone that can will just put in tons of hours into it."
    },
    {
      "body": "I've met so many great people, gone to so many venues, and had such great experiences with offline multiplayer gaming. I've met some assholes too, but it was worth dealing with for all the positive experiences. Online gaming is trash compared to offline multiplayer games."
    },
    {
      "body": "Definitely. I've quit several competitive online games before just because their systems and mechanics are just too stressful. A lot of multiplayer competitive games will punish you heavily for losing, and will force you to coordinate with your team if you want to actually win, even if your teammates suck, won't listen to you, or are toxic assholes.\n\nI feel like these design decisions are the main contributors to this kind of stress, as you're forced to only ever play to win, not for fun. There's high stakes if you lose, your teammates will yell at you for not doing everything they say. You're not allowed to improve at your own pace, you're not allowed to experiment with new strategies, you're not allowed to mess around and have fun.\n\nOn top of that, they'll often have extremely grindy progression, forcing you to invest a huge amount of time into playing the game, which means that if you have school or work, or need to get work done around the house, or have other tasks that need to get done, you're not going to actually have much time to play the game, it creates this sense of falling behind - there's people with a lot more time than you, who are able to binge for 8 hours, grinding to unlock everything. and improving at a much quicker pace than you.\n\nThe only \"competitive\" game I play anymore, is Team Fortress 2, specifically because it lacks these kinds of mechanics. I'm free to improve at my own pace, I'm allowed to mess up and make mistakes, I'm allowed to experiment with new/weird strategies, I'm allowed to just *have fun.* Every multiplayer PvP game coming out these days is trying so desperately to be \"the next big esport\", and it's reflecting in the game's mechanics and general feel, and it's fucking tiring."
    },
    {
      "body": "I do know the feeling, that's why I try to play less often by myself and play with a friend or friends and play more casually (if that's a possibility). When I play with other people I know it feels more like I'm playing for fun and losing isn't as bad"
    },
    {
      "body": "I get this.\n\nI don't have the time to put into gaming like I used to.  I used to be really pretty good at the old Halo's.  I got the MCC and have been playing some old school MP, and my god.  Not only am I awful, but I have no time to put into it to get better.  So I don't even bother anymore."
    },
    {
      "body": "[removed]",
      "replies": [
        {}
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "[removed]",
      "replies": [
        {}
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "I'm not the best at games and sometimes it takes me a while to learn everything so yeah I get a little stressed out. Coupled with the fact that lots of gamers are extremely competitive I get nervous they're gonna hate me or something lol. Usually the only \"multiplayer\" games I play are mmorpgs but even then I still solo everything"
    },
    {
      "body": "[removed]",
      "replies": [
        {}
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "[removed]",
      "replies": [
        {}
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "I think a lot of that is the mindset most people have going into a competitive multiplayer game. A lot of people go in saying either “ok I’ll just play a bit to have some fun” which poorly counters the competitive aspect, or “I am going to play this game, I am going to learn it, and get good” which a lot of people can’t really do because of life and/or the time investment and dedication it requires.\n\nFor me personally I’m somewhere in the middle. I enjoy the rush of a competitive game where my team mates are counting on me to support them and I do the same, and I do get kinda down about losing but it doesn’t bother me too much. I also don’t benefit from prolonged grinding and practice, it just makes me dislike the game. Idk it’s weird and kinda hard to describe.\n\nAnother big factor is the community, if the community sucks, your entry experience will suffer immensely. And from that you’ll never want to associate with the main community because they were toxic when you first started and it left a lasting impression.\n\nEdit: I should also clarify that the second mind set I mentioned is prone to be more stressful. And the first one can lead to stress because the good players dominate and it can really damage your emotional state to get absolutely wrecked."
    },
    {
      "body": "When i played csgo, i only played casual, so i gived solo queue competitive a try, i was kinda nervous, but it passed away on minutes. I got stressed by thinking that someone will flame me or worse things. This feeling will be on all games, sometimes you'll trust yourself from what are you doing, sometimes not. If you don't feel like playing the game, but you play it, it can result in a defeat.\n\nWhen i want to try other gamemode, i'm always nervous because i will not know what happens next, i'm going to get flamed or toxic idiots that will say nonsense because i'm new on a game(I have this feeling whenever i want to play normals on LoL)"
    },
    {
      "body": "There was a different thread on reddit last week with a test to check your reaction speed. If its accurate then mine is below the norm, which goes partway to explaining why i'm dreadful at most online PvP games, especially FPS's.\nI enjoy playing co-op online though, just prefer single player games (and none of my 'real life' friends play the same games or have the same console as me which puts a dampener on the online play too)."
    },
    {
      "body": "Used to never play multiplayer games at all. Then I picked up _For Honor_ and it’s become one of my favorite games. That said, ohhhh yes! That game makes me so frustrated sometimes. \n\nViciously signaling your teammates to help secure targets while they’re busy ganking drives me up a wall."
    },
    {
      "body": "This is the reason I mostly only play casual mode in game like R6S, Overwatch. Sometime I just running around trolling my teammate and the enemies and don't care for winning or K/D."
    },
    {
      "body": "I totally understand what you're saying and can relate.\n\nWhich is probably why recently I've been playing.. so much.. American Truck Simulator..\n\n.. something about driving all around the country delivering goods and listening to the radio. It's therapeutic."
    },
    {
      "body": "Yes! Exactly like you describe. I've been trying out some new interesting ways of online interactions recently to try and get through that. More co-op stuff when I can, vrchat, gtaonline a bit, all pretty non competitive. Seems to be helping with the stress."
    },
    {
      "body": "I think most of us have had that experience of finding that one game you're good at, playing it a ton, working to get better and seeing your skill improve. It's so rewarding to be able to play at a high level and have that feeling of competence.\n\nThe problem is that gaming culture has been overrun by toxic, selfish people that won't allow you to make that journey anymore. Everyone acts like they're grandmaster champions who sprang fully formed from the head of Fatal1ty, and if your 1-day-old account isn't esports-ready then you need to get the fuck out of their game and uninstall life. Experience that a few times and of course you're going to have anxiety about your performance in multiplayer."
    },
    {
      "body": "I think it's what you make of it. I try my best to win and there can certainly be nail-baiting matches that end up feeling stressful but overall I find multiplayer gaming to be a perfectly fun way to relax. But I've got other friends I sometimes play with that somehow make matches super stressful, possibly because they are significantly higher ranked and so take things more seriously. If I play with them it's not relaxing at all but is still fun in other ways."
    },
    {
      "body": "Oh yeah, I feel exactly the same. I quit playing most online multiplayer games because of the feeling.\n\n​\n\nThe exception is Planetside 2. You still get the rush of the multiplayer, but the scale of the thing somehow makes the sting of loss a lot less sharp. \n\nIf you have the itch, check it out. If not, I can't wait for Cyberpunk either."
    },
    {
      "body": "Yes, I have to play multiplayer games with friends because it stresses me out too much when I'm on my own.\n\nTrying to extract in Tarkov when I have a backpack full of good loot, I swear, takes away a month of my lifespan."
    },
    {
      "body": "I've seen a lot of new games based on a cooperative multiplayer model more recently.  It seems this is sort of a response to the more stressful and competitive multiplayer."
    },
    {
      "body": "I know this feeling.  It's why I love Journey so much.  You only encounter one other character the whole game, another player you're randomly paired with.  It's not co-op, it's not competitive.  You can ignore or exploit or support the other any way the game allows."
    },
    {
      "body": "I know I've definitely switched to more co-op than PVP when it comes to online multiplayer these days. I guess just because losing to computers is just whatever, but losing to what you know to be another person is kind of embarrassing. Computers are in a lot of ways predictable, so you get more mastery over a particular game, though it lacks as much adaptive learning of something like a RTS or MOBA. Some people like that adaptive, dynamic gameplay against real people though, so that goes down to personal preference.\n\nI really like co-op though. Camaraderie is still something that feels great, and co-op games provide that in ways an online game can never quite deliver. Deep Rock Galactic or Monster Hunter World are games that do this for me. And sure, there's an actual game to it and all, but I also like when players just goof around being silly."
    },
    {
      "body": "Treat it as a sport type hobby and I feel the pressure is not as heavy. Play for the aspects you enjoy about it as a top priority and then when the game decides to go in a demanding direction of me I feel like I either succeed or I see an opportunity for growth.\n\nOf course....after I punch a hole through the wall"
    },
    {
      "body": "I know what you mean, but I don’t really have that issue. I play games that I enjoy whether or not I win.\n\nI play a Overwatch every day, for example, and I’ve got 850 hours or so in it, but I’m also 40 and am still basically a silver. I’m just not that good at it. My team wins matches about fifty percent of the time, because basically it has pretty decent matchmaking.\n\nI’ll play a few games where I’m dominating and carrying a bit, then when I climb up over a certain point level, I have two games where we get spanked and sent back down again. That’s clearly where my limit is, but I don’t mind losing that game because it’s fun to play even when you don’t win.\n\nThat said, I don’t ever go into chat because it’s full of raging children more often than not and I don’t want that in my life. It’s part of the reason I am the rank I am, using voice to coordinate would help, but it’s simply not worth it except with friends.\n\nSomething like Rocket a League is the same. I’m bad at it, but I couldn’t care less if I lose at that game, it’s fun anyway.\n\nThe type of game that I just don’t bother with are those long drawn out survival things that are just designed for trolling. PUBG, warzone, etc. I’ll play Battlefield 4, winning or losing is irrelevant, and you respawn quickly, but a Battle Royale games I only like in theory, never much enjoyed on in practice.\n\nOh, and Titanfall 2. I’m usually lower half of team rankings in that, but it just feels so good to move and shoot in that game I don’t care, and even when you lose you get that chance to escape which feels fun.\n\nSo basically, even when you’re shit, and you lose a lot, it doesn’t have to be stressful. It’s only stressful if you put such a premium on winning that you  can’t just enjoy the mechanics of the game.\n\nAnd there’s quite a few games where that’s not possible. Siege and battlefront spring to mind, or something like PvP in the first Division game, Games where grinding gives an actual gameplay advantage so the players with the most skill also have the best gear or characters. I just Hard pass on those."
    },
    {
      "body": "RTS is a really stressful genre.\nNowadays I prefer to watch really good players from time to time, at a select few games that hold my interest.\n\nPs. Don't Starve is a nice twist on the rts genre, where it's not you vs another player, but you vs the game trying to survive."
    },
    {
      "body": "I feel you, I try to just play with friends and not focus so hard on winning but just having a good time. If we get crushed repeatedly and it looks like we wont improve that night, I'm like, \"Let's try something else.\" I work a full time job like you, so I know how it feels to only have a few days off or dedicated time for gaming."
    },
    {
      "body": "I play Rocket League since it launched as free ps plus game, and before that mostly trying to get good with Street Fighter IV(all the way to ultimate version). I bought SF V but then evetually dropped it off my radar since I only have limit time to commit. And SF V compare to Rocket League, you have to learn match ups, frame data, etc and after patch you need to learn them again or whatever new mechanism might be introduced. While Rocket League pretty much remain the same mechanically over the past 5 years. And that makes me dump like 2000+ hours into the game and counting. \n\nI still play to improve, since it's just so much fun and fast paced. Like fighting game community likes to make analogy of speed chess in fighting games, Rocket League is also very very decision heavy and execution heavy the higher you go. I personally think it's very well rounded compare to fighting games since there will be no balancing issues or match up favors. Anything opponent can do you can do right away if you know how to execute it. There will be practice, there will be something that's more useful than others. And then there are fundamentals that are true regardless of the ranks you are in(like footsies in fighting game). \n\nWith a full time job and a dad of 4 yo toddler, I enjoy the time I put into it. Of course there will be time that you feel frustrated, but it's all part of being in the competitive env."
    },
    {
      "body": "I always face the same thing online. Either I try to play with my friends who have never played before and I am the one who is way too good. But whenever I go online I just get completely wrecked. The only game I have ever gotten good at enough to be okay at was TF2, and the only reason I played it is because I enjoyed the special events. \n\nGames as a service have been really disappointing because each one seams to think that it is going to be the next big thing I spend my life doing in order to earn some fake internet points. I would much rather just play a single player game with a story that has a start and end. I'm watching a bunch of videos right now about people playing anthem because I was going to see if it could possibly have any value akin to playing the original mass effect trilogy. But it is all players and youtubers holding out hope that Bioware will keep developing it to make it good. No thanks.",
      "replies": [
        {}
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "I feel like anyone who wants to play a competitive game but are worried about the stakes involved should play Titanfall 2. A lot of competitive gamers call it a game for casual players in a bad way, but i think that's the real strength of it. \n\nThe movement and the shooting feel really freeing, and there is a real skill to bring able to use your mobility effectively, which is probably just as much fun as shooting people. And obviously the massive robots come and you have a chance to just wreck, it's like just going super saiyan for free.\n\nAnd at the end of the day, no one even really cares, people are just doing their own thing. And it's really freeing.\n\nAnd as insurance, if you buy the game and still hate playing multiplayer, the single player campaign is absolutely fantastic too, there are some really creative, standout levels in that."
    },
    {
      "body": "[removed]",
      "replies": [
        {}
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "I will literally sit in the main screen of a game and just wait for the entire day to see if a friend will jump online. If they don't then I've wasted a day waiting, but I refuse to play games alone and I can't really pinpoint why. When I have forced myself to play alone, I usually actually enjoy it, but at the same time, I'm not having fun? Like I'll enjoy that I won and I like that it's chill because I'm not shouting, but I guess to me, gaming is meant to be an experience that you share with your mates. Just a couple blokes screaming through the headsets and having a laugh regardless of whether you've won or lost."
    },
    {
      "body": "Try some co-op multiplayer games so you can still hang out with other people in a game but without stress and toxic competition.\nMay I recommend warframe, it’s free so you can see if you like it and has a great community, it takes quite a bit of grinding if you want to properly meta but just casual playing doesn’t require Much time"
    },
    {
      "body": "It can be. I had to quit playing siege after this episode I had where my heart started pounding while I was playing and it led into an anxiety attack. I was like damn I really just had an anxiety attack from a game."
    },
    {
      "body": "Kinda why i stick with destiny nowadays, i’ve played so much of D1 back in the day and got to the point where it’s literally just muscle memory cause I no lifed the game when i was 15-16. \n\nIf I try playing anything else pvp though it demands way too much of my time to be consistently good at so i understand your point."
    },
    {
      "body": "I’ve given up PVP mostly. I’ll do some crucible in Destiny to get the Pinnacle gear and that’s about it.\n\nThere’s just something about it that stops me from having fun nowadays. Every single multiplayer game feels like I’m getting tossed into a ranked playlist with extremely sweaty people and everybody who wins gets cash prizes. It sucks."
    },
    {
      "body": "The only stressful game I have played is Rainbow Six Siege on PC. On PS4 with a controller it doesnt feel like Id play the game (more like RNG), so that isnt stressful.\n\nOn PC tho I have the opportunity to do very accurate movements of my mouse, which is very stressful, because, if I miss, I die and have to wait again.\n\nFeels like I was actually dead"
    },
    {
      "body": "Although I don't play them ver often, I can play First Person shooters online in random servers and feel alright at failing. Real-time strategy games though are another beast entirely. They make me feel like a stressed idiot within 5 seconds of the game starting. I don't know what it is about those games that is borderline panic inducing for me. I love those games but playing them against other humans is just not fun for me. I play board games against people and I'm fine. The fast and real time nature of RTS is something that slays me.\n\nI still play all kinds of coop games, like survival games. But even in coop I find I'm kind of slower than most people want to play and I'm just at the back of the pack trying to keep up."
    },
    {
      "body": "The big problem for me with multiplayer competitive games like Smite and Dota 2 is that it's team based. Which means that you fucking up not only means that *you* have a bad time, but you let *your team* down as well. And, in games that can last for a while, being the load is just painful. \n\nAnd *then* there's the mechanical knowledge. You'd need to read the wiki back to front or watch tutorial videos *and* play the game to the exclusion of other games for *weeks* to get good, even if you're good at grokking game mechanics. If you don't have the time to spend, or enjoy doing other things of an evening (roleplaying games, reading, whatever), then you're *falling behind*. Add to that patches that change the meta entirely, and you need to constantly inject these games into your brain in order to be able to play.\n\nThere's also the fact that, to a greater or lesser degree, the games aren't really about having *fun*, as I understand it. They're about *winning*. Because, after an hour, if you don't win, you didn't have fun. That's the logic for Dota, as I understand it. And even people who play it get super competitive and angry if you cause the team you're both on to fall behind in any way. I enjoy watching Dota, but playing with strangers would just make me upset, and playing with friends and family would make *them* upset. The only way to have fun playing Dota, as far as I can tell, is to try to win, but not care if you do - which feels like an oxymoron. \n\n... I'm going to stop ranting about Dota 2 now. \n\nI've not played a multiplayer FPS in a while, but those I could at least get a handle on, and generally, while I wouldn't excel, I could at least put some points on the board. And, even if I couldn't, it's a max of maybe ten minutes I've spent being shit. \n\nI really enjoy co-operative multiplayer, PvE style, such as Monster Hunter World. Your fellow players are less inclined to resent you and more inclined to help you out, and you feel more like you contributed, even if you dealt less damage. It still feels like shit if you're the reason a quest failed, but generally that results in brushing yourself off, figuring out what you did wrong, and trying a different approach."
    },
    {
      "body": "Just play unranked. CSGO is the only game I can think of that doesn't offer this luxury. I do understand what you're saying and agree with you, I just switched to playing unranked. The desire to win is still there, especially with higher tier unranked mmr players. But the stress and all the negative factors are not."
    },
    {
      "body": "I tend to find attribution being a big factor here.\n\nRTS games tend to cap at 4 players a team in my experience, and generally the smaller the better for balance. But this means success and failure is either entirely on you, or there's a small group of potentially skilled people you can feel you're weighing down.\n\nAs a result, I rarely play RTS competitively, and when I do it's against friends.\n\nConversely, something like Warthunder, a fairly quick and dynamic game with 16+ teams, there's always going to be a couple that just have a bad match, and the quick turnaround on games means that learning curve passes quicker, so you get more \"good games\" faster"
    },
    {
      "body": "I try to just play causal and not care about competitive. I’m no going pro in video games, it’s a just a good way to wind down and relax through out the day, or after work. It also helps me get some rage out from holding it in all day lol"
    },
    {
      "body": "I have to turn off chat in rocket league, otherwise if I get in a mood and have ~~bad teammates~~ not great games, chat bans ensue. Especially when there is no real way to not play with those people again, even two or three rounds in a row.\n\nThere's been plenty of games where, like RL, I hit a certain point and then it isn't fun anymore, or becomes *work*. Like, ok not much work for RL, I would have to start finding teammates to play with because I can't stand the randomness of random players? Then would I start critiquing those players? \n\nI always enjoyed like battlefield 1 because it was big enough that like, one great player couldn't just spank me into oblivion. I think too if someone just outplays me, I can be like \"dang, ok fair play to the queen.\" Also like if one in 32 people decides to just throw the game, or be bad, or has to go to the door to get a pizza, it's fine. If one out of three people in Rocket League do that, well, *I* have to sit there for 5 minutes or else *I* get penalized for someone else. \n\nI like Tetris99 because while people have ranks and there is like, one level higher I could play in, it's generally just 100 randos together (though I guess I've seen people try and team up in twitch etc etc). That doesn't bother me as much. \n\nI liked playing WoW back in the day, but then you know at some point when you are waking up at 4am to raid with australians because you work nights.. yeah, just too much. Also like, I personally just really never get into free range gankable pvp like some WoW or some parts of the division.\n\nI like Deep Rock Galactic because once you put in about 20 hours, that's pretty much it. There are little tweaks here and there, but no min-maxing really, you are playing for silly dwarf mustaches.\n\nMonster Hunter World has been hit or miss, I think I just need to 'git gud' but like, investing an hour into something and then losing everything after 50 minutes is just annoying. Also lots of instances where things just feel like that 'fucking bullshit.' But also I can easily change difficulty and still get rewards for just playing. \n\nSooo I guess across all these various games and genres, you are tapping into a bigger question of risk vs reward (like does RL get more fun once I break through diamond level, or just worse), time investment (5 minutes vs 50 minutes vs 4 hour raids twice a week), ability to affect outcomes (will I be ganked into oblivion, will I ever be able to beat this boss) diminishing returns/disparity between success/failure, etc etc. \n\nIt's been a long time since I played competitive RTS but even then it always felt like, well you HAVE TO do abcdefgh in order as fast as possible otherwise you have already lost from the first 10 seconds. \n\nSo I guess after gaming for 35 years or whatever I start regressing to lower stakes. I may not even do the weeklies in DRG this week."
    },
    {
      "body": "Yeah I can't do it anymore. Gets me too angry and I don't have all the time in the world to play like when I was a kid. I stick to single player or co-op mostly. I prefer difficult games, just not against other people. In my limited time I have to play after work and cooking dinner, I don't need anything stressful."
    },
    {
      "body": "Competitive fighting game player here.\n\nIt can be indeed stressful! There's not a lot you can do about stress except play until it doesn't impact your sense of well-being so much.\n\nAs for feeling bad after losing, that has a lot to do with ego management. When you look too hard at what could have been, or think/speak in a way that's only done to soften a loss, you're actually sucking away more of the fun away from it all, even if you manage to soften the blow to your ego in the moment.\n\nTaking a wider view at loss is the best way to be able to enjoy gameplay. Losing is a part of winning. Everyone's just doing their best. Everyone is trying to have fun. Try not to project too hard on your opponent.\n\nIf you're competitive, you should seek improvement unrelated to ranking (Ranking is sometimes a terrible marker for skill in most games anyways). Focus on skilled play and small accomplishments from moment to moment. What you're looking for is empowerment, and there are many places to find it (And not just in video games). Don't let pride hold you back, in that sense."
    },
    {
      "body": "I've made it a daily habit to train for hours in video-games since May 24th. I also feel like it has \"turn[ed] from a fun pasttime into a job of sorts.\"\n\nSalt management has become the most important factor influencing my training. I seem to get heartburn, chest pain, and indigestion from it, not to mention the nonphysical symptoms. \n\nThings that help: \n\n* taking breaks, \n* petting my dog, \n* eating (against being hangry), \n* having  conversation with a friend while playing\n* enjoying art (movies, shows, books, noncompetitive video-games)\n* sexual release\n* physically cooling off (counter heat stress)\n* not playing tired\n* greenspace (park, garden, potted plant)\n* simplified play\n* [gratitude list](https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/hw0r7a/im_a_phd_researcher_who_studies_games_and/)\n* [listening to music](https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/hw0r7a/im_a_phd_researcher_who_studies_games_and/)\n\nI already meditate and exercise. Cardio might be best. \n\nI presume saltiness stems from [overarousal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerkes%E2%80%93Dodson_law), being too excited. I cite (hypo)manic symptoms as a parallel: particularly the two criteria of elevated arousal and irritability. \n\n>Mania, also known as manic syndrome, is a state of abnormally elevated arousal, affect, and energy level, or \"a state of heightened overall activation with enhanced affective expression together with lability of affect.\" Although mania is often conceived as a \"mirror image\" to depression, the heightened mood can be either euphoric or irritable; indeed, as the mania intensifies, irritability can be more pronounced and result in anxiety or violence. \n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mania\n\nTherefore, reducing arousal should reduce saltiness. \n\nA real human opponent is motivating. But the bitter taste of defeat leads to bitter thoughts. These unsavoury uncalled-for opinions may be directed toward others or oneself. The anger sinks its toxic, poisonous claws into you and keeps you playing. Next thing you know, you're spiralling and lashing out at those around you. In any case, these thoughts stem from the negative emotional state, not from who you are, not from your best self. So forgive yourself.\n\nThose negative thoughts can be considered Negative Talk. There's a large body of evidence that Positive Self Talk (PST) helps performance.^[[1]](http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.00413/full)[[2]](https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/82779635.pdf)[[3]](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1469029210001202)[[4]](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284903463_Instructional_and_motivational_self-talk_An_investigation_on_perceived_self-talk_functions)[[5]](https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/fulltext/2009/01000/effects_of_instructional_and_motivational.30.aspx#:~:text=Motivational%20self%2Dtalk%20is%20designed,and%20strategy%20execution%20(25) A subset of PST is Instructional Self Talk (IST). I lump mantras into this. One of my mantras is \"Relax & Enjoy.\" I theorize enjoyment functions close enough to gratitude as in gratitude listing, switching your mind off the railroad train track of negative thoughts & anxieties to a more positive track. This alone probably won't eliminate salt, hence the list of solutions.\n\nI don't play ranked. I avoid obsessing over stats, and focus more on improvement itself. Remember, the most important thing to training is that you're training at all. So once you've trained at all today, you can be satisfied you're improving. There are diminishing returns on training. So it's more about how enriched and diverse your life is than how much time you spend on one thing."
    },
    {
      "body": "This is all about outlook. Everyone here is talking about being \"competitive\" as if that means being in the top 500 or whatever. But there are thousands or even millions of players enjoying these games who are objectively not that good at them. If you want to be a pro gamer or want to \"master\" a game, sure, that's stressful. But if your goal is to just enjoy the experience, it's *way* easier to play a game at a normal level."
    },
    {}
  ]
}