{
"post": {
"title": "So do you agree on the sentiment of PoE 2 = Ruthless?",
"selftext": "Right now if you go to r/pathofexile/ is full of people lamenting the fact that Ruthless was a beta testing for PoE2, do you agree? \n \nWhat PoE and Ruthless supposedly have in common: \n \n- town/well flask refill in town\n- no skill gem vendor even tough with uncut gem dropping seem like to obtain every active skill will pretty easy, while support gem is like ruthless \n- no crafting bench and a nerfed crafting in general (but item dropped are better?) \n- supposedly less flask charge gained on killing, because white mobs don't refill but to me it seemed that blue/yellow mods were given more charge \n- boss hp goes to full if you die (actually doesn't happen on ruthless after the campaign) \n- no movement skill gem, but poe2 get tons of attack with a move build it in and infinite dodge roll on spacebar \n- slower gameplay, while it is probably going to be slower than zoom zoom poe, demos streamed had people running at lv 45 with trash gear so I think people are crying over nothing, I don't have that trash gear at lv 45 on ruthless come on. \n- flask that are basically always on like quicksilver are removed (I don't think it's to copy ruthless, they just know it was a bad design) \n- the introduction of gold, unfortunately attributed to ruthless because of \"ruthless of gold\" even tough it was a worse version of ruthless due to the lack of other currency",
"url": "https://www.reddit.com/r/poeruthless/comments/15dm4gg/so_do_you_agree_on_the_sentiment_of_poe_2_ruthless/"
},
"comments": [
{
"body": "People forget what is like to play RPG game anymore all hands-outs, no struggle, and all hand-carrying mechanics. We going back to the classic way of RPGs are and I like it, otherwise genre will die",
"replies": [
{
"body": "*people who don't play roguelikes",
"replies": [
{
"body": "old skool arpgs were like rain descirbed aswell"
}
]
},
{
"body": "because poe is an ARPG not an RPG\n\nwhile often similar and the acronyms now are so overused if you look at what usually each one actually means they are quite drastic to each other.\n\nif i go talk to a random person and ask them their favourite RPG it would never be PoE because its not in most people's mind that genre. it would probably be something like Final Fantasy etc\n\nan ARPG is a term coined so competitors didnt have to call their games diablo-clones in the 90's just like FPS was coined because competitors got sick of having to market their games as doom-clones which was the prevalent \"genre\"",
"replies": [
{
"body": "while true, it doenst have anything to do with what OP said."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "While there are similarities, i think both modes will retain their vast differences. For all we know, there could be a ruthless mode for POE2.",
"replies": [
{
"body": " Jonathan said \"Ruthless will not be necessary in PoE2\"",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Thats not true. He said ruthless wont be necessary in PoE 2 YET - just like it wasnt necessary at the start of PoE 1. There is no huge powercreep und bloat coming from years and years of added content.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I do not see in that interview \"yet\" though it seems like it will be just unnecessary because the game will be balanced in meaningful progression but this may be my copium",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Must have misremembered then - but I felt like this was his sentiment and it made sense to me."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "I agree, Ruthless in PoE2 is confirmed not coming, because Jonathan said it wasn't needed because it's a new game and Ruthless would make sense only after they make years of contents (ofc poe guys now go around and say that Jonathan said PoE2 don't have Ruthless because it is already Ruthless)",
"replies": [
{
"body": "That makes sense. I suppose with all the changes, and how similar the POE2 is, it wouldn’t benefit from having that mode right away"
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "> Ruthless was a beta testing for Ruthless, do you agree? \n\nYes :P \n\nOther than that, no, PoE 2 seems slower paced in the trailers/showcases because 90% of the game isn't implemented in the demo and the premade characters had random skills to show more of the diversity. If it were anywhere close, we would get the closed beta much sooner. \n\nPoE 2 will be easier in a lot of ways such as having the right socket slots and colors much sooner and being \"allowed\" to have a single target and AoE specc during the campaign with no downside whatsoever. We also don't know if there aren't more movement skills or skills that just decrease travel time in a way."
},
{
"body": "Yes, Ruthless has been a testing ground for a bunch of things for PoE2. That said, it's probably the other way around as well, with them making systems for PoE2 and then testing in Ruthless whether they feel good for PoE1 and should be added to the main game (or just plain added to Ruthless)."
},
{
"body": "Yes it was a beta for PoE 2. There is no doubt about it. \n\n> the introduction of gold, unfortunately attributed to ruthless because of \"ruthless of gold\" even tough it was a worse version of ruthless due to the lack of other currency\n\nIt was confirmed by Jonathan that it was a test to see if gold was good for PoE 2.\n\nAbout the \"lamenting\", there is huge difference between PoE 1 and 2. PoE 2 was designed (skills, monster, bosses) to fit that design. PoE 1 no longer fit that design (since maybe 3.0)",
"replies": [
{
"body": "> It was confirmed by Jonathan that it was a test to see if gold was good for PoE 2\n\nYes but that doesn't make gold a ruthless thing, as we don't have it apart from a league used to test gold mechanic for PoE 2",
"replies": [
{
"body": "What he was trying to say, we should expect more poe2 systems tested in Ruthless mode.\n\nFor example: maybe we will get poe2 buff for increased currency drop chance from map bosses."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Yes and I’m fine with it. Sounds like we’re gonna get an entire dev team to support the idea of ruthless in our own game. It makes total sense to me as an enjoyer of both leagues. Now I can play poe2 for a few weeks and then switch to poe1 when I feel I’ve accomplished my goals. I think people who are upset were expecting something else, which would explain why a lot of them are complaining like children that Santa didn’t give them what they wanted for Christmas."
},
{
"body": "It feels like it is somewhere between normal poe1 and ruthless, which is a good thing imo. If the game had the same pace that poe1 has, there would be little room for power creep with future expansions."
},
{
"body": "What we all have to keep in mind is that this was a very small snippet of POE2.\n\nWe have absolutely no idea what POE2 will even be like.\n\nAnd things can change as POE2 is still a year out or even more from being released.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Does this happend often in video games?"
}
]
},
{
"body": "I expect PoE 2's endgame to get a lot faster and wackier than what most of us are capable of in Ruthless. But yes, Ruthless has clearly been used as a testing ground for many of the features that the PoE 2 team wanted to implement.\n\nWith that in mind, I am proud to be among a community of beta testers who have undoubtedly contributed to the development of the next generation of ARPGs."
},
{
"body": "I really dislike the fact that this topic got downvoted.\n\nIts a good question to discuss, but people downvote it just because they dont agree with it."
},
{
"body": "It does overwhelmingly appear to be the case. For what its worth I do not think its a good direction for poe2 to take. Ruthless is only fun for me because I have a played the hell out of regular poe and ruthless offers a new way to play something I know like the back of my hand. I am sure there will be fun to be had but yeah a bit unexpected."
},
{
"body": "I love ruthless"
},
{
"body": "no because in ruthless i cannot turn into a bear"
},
{
"body": "Only reason why i resent poe2 is because how much it hurt poe1 in the last years, stranded with skeleton crew, and it going to hurt much more.\n\nI have no opinion on poe2 itself because i havent' played it."
},
{
"body": "I think both ruthless and PoE2 are the kind of game GGG wants to make. They want to slow the combat pace down, slow down move speed, slow clear speed, normalize dps, reduce mob density, reduce crafting power, etc. Both appear to do exactly that. \n\nIn some sense I agree with them, PoE1 has evolved into a pretty big mess. If your build doesnt abuse some sort of gimmicky dps scaling and one of the newer defensive synergies, it hits a wall really early on and cant improve. However I think there are a lot of parts to PoE1 that are still really good, and its going to be a huge letdown to not have them in PoE2. \n\nFor me, removing crafting currencies and the crafting bench is pretty much a deal breaker. Unless they completely overhauled loot drops, affix weighting, brought back archnemesis loot 5.0, everyone would just be finding 1:1,000,000 rares and selling them because they arent for their build, which is basically what killed D3.\n\nThere is no way they are going to get everything right at launch, I just hope they listen to more design related feedback for once."
},
{
"body": "I got the vibe that its more like dark souls / monster hunter ... you got some slower weapon moves/skills that take timing and thought.\nI love it."
},
{
"body": "> no skill gem vendor even tough with uncut gem dropping seem like to obtain every active skill will pretty easy, while support gem is like ruthless\n\nOh you think support gems are drop only and not available with uncut gems?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "They used uncut gem in the demo and they could only use it to unlock active skill gem and support gem dropped while there were no skill gem drop other than uncut gem., things may change ofc."
}
]
},
{
"body": "It's going to be somewhere in the middel of ruthless and normal, likely slightly more skewed towards ruthless the first few leagues. That's my take, and I'm all for it."
}
]
}