Rufous

POE 2 New Skill System: Why? : r/pathofexile

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{
  "post": {
    "title": "POE 2 New Skill System: Why?",
    "selftext": "I'm a little concerned that the new skill system in POE 2 is trying to \"fix\" something that isn't broken or changing for the sake of change.  I love the current system and really feel like it is one of the strongest and most unique aspects of POE that differentiates itself from other games.  \n\nIt's entirely possible that the system in POE 2 will actually be better, more fun, more engaging, etc.  But it's what I'm least excited about, to be honest.\n\nPersonally, I'd be more than happy with an entirely new campaign, new/improved engine, and little tweaks to the skill gems.  Maybe a 4th color or a way to combine two gems, something like that.  Not a complete overall of a good system.\n\nTo be clear, I'm not saying it's going to be bad.  Just saying I've got concerns and it's the thing I'm least excited about.  \n\nIf I'm the only one I'll shut up!",
    "url": "https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/14sp19d/poe_2_new_skill_system_why/"
  },
  "comments": [
    {
      "body": "> unique aspects of POE that differentiates itself from other games.\n\nhow does moving sockets/links from armor to gems themselves defeat that\n\nin the context of other games, it's no change at all"
    },
    {
      "body": "I'm pretty shocked by this post just because having to reroll your sockets, colors, and links when you find a new item can really take the wind out of your sails. You potentially end up having to bank the item until you can do something with it which feels bad. This new system also allows for more skills to be used and less of a focus on just one main skill.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "Exactly, I might find a unique in the campaign, but most times I'm finished with the campaign by the time I can link/color it properly lol."
        },
        {
          "body": "This. Tbh this is also why I wont touch ruthless until poe2 at Least. Imagine 5 hours in you find a good pair of boots... and you cant use them for fear of breaking your few gems and their setup\n\nEdit-Or even something like that earlier."
        },
        {
          "body": "This is the exact reason ggg said they're changing the socket system."
        },
        {
          "body": "It's post like this that literially make me want to roll my eyes and point you into the direction of a less demanding and intricate game.\n\nIt's an additive layer that forces players to:\n\n* To learn how to progressively min-max, \n* Make smart choices with currency through gameplay, investment and economy knowledge.\n* Creates a strong filter to seperate casual players and actual veterans.\n\nI'm tired of the mentality where PoE needs to make the game more accessible for people who have a passing apprecation for the genre.  \n\n\nThis changes is absolutely uneeded and only serves to reel in the all the angry  D4 players.  \nPoE is SUPPOSE to be made for veterans of the genre.  \nIf it were up to me, I'd remove Softcore."
        },
        {
          "body": "I can see where you're coming from, but for me, I enjoyed that aspect. Sure there was plenty of frustration when things didn't go well. But it was exciting to craft exactly what I wanted or even finding the perfect item on trade.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "I don't think this kind of crafting will go away completely - it'll just happen less often. (when setting up your skill gems rather than every time you replace your body armour).",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "Well, we do know that it will be possible to change the socket color on items, at least as of the PoE2 Reveal in 2019, but it will require currency that likely doesn't drop until maps.  I hope it isn't too rare or too difficult, as once you do it on one piece of equipment (giving Armor/Evasion piece a Blue socket, e.g.), you will have to do it on every replacement for that gear slot."
                }
              ]
            },
            {
              "body": "What's the change though that's going to make this different? Is socket number/link crafting really that important to you right now?\n\nFor me I'm looking forward to poe 2s system of gems. It will just be easier to upgrade gear with less emphasis on the sockets of that gear piece. My only concern would be how accessible the extra sockets are during the campaign. If I want to do a skill you get at the start, then it would be kinda sad if it only had like 1/2 sockets for supports"
            },
            {
              "body": "If you enjoy that, it lead that to a bigger problem. I think u need help, and im not sarcastic/ironic. U have something masochist in you, and u like to be punished alot and be rewarded after  long long hard time with something little, but you see it as something big (why not, after such long journey on being punished)"
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "Never once in all my leagues did I find a great item while leveling I couldn't make work... the exception would be if it's an ES base and I'm running reds or greens, but you normally can still use the item and shift sockets. It's even less of a problem if I'm in maps and the exceptio  there would be again if you are trying to hit off colors and not doing jt properly.\n\nAll that said I'm not the average player and I have friends who are challenged to get builds online or find the sockets they need early league so if this helps them I'm all for it."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "What new skill system? Are you talking about the change where links are tied to gems themselves instead of being on gear? Because that new system sounds so much better than the current system and I have no idea why you'd dislike it. \n\nCon: Harder to get a level 21 6L gem.\n\nPro: Can upgrade your chest and 2H weapon as often as you want since the cost of having to 6L is de-coupled from those item slots.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "These problems could just as easily be solved by making crafting success chances less abusive",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "You say less abusive, I say less special. You might not like extreme RNG but that doesn't make it abusive."
            },
            {
              "body": "You keep using the word abusive, but I feel like you don't know what it means"
            },
            {
              "body": "I disagree. It's important that 6L is difficult to obtain. \n\nUnder your idea, in order for me to be able to swap chests and 2H out as easily as I will be able to do it in PoE 2, then chance to 6L would have to be like 200 fusings on average. That's far too low. We'd have 6Ls on day 2 guaranteed.",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "That's actually exactly GGG's goal in this change, 6L gems is substantially easier than 6L items, gets rid of an unnecessary currency (fusings) and so on.",
                  "replies": [
                    {
                      "body": "I don't remember them saying that. I remember them saying their goal was to keep 6L difficult to get, but make it so that players can swap chests and 2H weapons freely.",
                      "replies": [
                        {
                          "body": "Not really no, they aren't making jewellers have fuser odds.\n\nPart of it is that get 21/20 gems 6L is so much of a hassle that they can't make it super hard to do, part of it is that they don't really want 6Ls to be super hard to come by anyway, as they feel like that's not a great point to balance the game around anymore. Instead they want to be able to say \"on shaper you should have 2 6Ls, on uber sirus 5.\""
                        },
                        {
                          "body": "We will have to 6-link like ~10 gems in a finished build. The fusing rng will hopefully be scaled down to accommodate that.",
                          "replies": [
                            {
                              "body": "Fuses are gone, there are no \"links\". There are only sockets.\n\nI predict that manually 6-socketing a gem will be slightly easier than 6-linking a chest in the current system, but more difficult than getting 6 sockets on a chest currently.\n\n6-link skill setups are too integral to the game's identity for GGG to make them Awakened GMP levels of rare. Spamming 3 2-links does not equal the power of 1 6-link skill.\n\nThat said, I suspect /u/HannibalPoe is correct, that few builds outside of minmaxed endgame builds will require 10 6-socket gems, and most builds will need 1 or 2 tops.",
                              "replies": [
                                {
                                  "body": "I understand that fusings and \"links\" are technically gone. I was simply using the common terminology that we've used for years to explain my point... which is mainly that we aren't just socketing/linking/whatever 1-2 slots, we're socketing ~10. Even if most builds only use ~4 full socket gems that's still too many for the current 6-link fusing odds to remain unchanged imo."
                                },
                                {
                                  "body": "I suspect the majority of 6 sockets past the first 3 or 4 in any build will end up being entirely utility / meta aura / meta curse and stuff like that. I suspect some minions will become substantially more common, like golems, but don't require a 6S on non-minion builds because they get all the survival tools they need on a 4S, and you would likely sell a 6S golem to a golementalist if you did find one."
                                }
                              ]
                            }
                          ]
                        }
                      ]
                    }
                  ]
                }
              ]
            }
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": ">I'm a little concerned that the new skill system in POE 2 is trying to \"fix\" something that isn't broken\n\nThat is not the case. It's a good change."
    },
    {
      "body": "**To remove friction in Path of Exile. It's unneeded complexity.**\n\nWith the new system, upgrading equipment, as fun as it already is, becomes even better! You'll no longer need to constantly fiddle with sockets, colors, and links on new gear. Instead, you can equip a new item and keep going with your preferred skill.\n\nIt's going to help veterans speedily reach endgame and greatly assist new players who are often put off by the inability to somewhat easily put on awesome new gear they find."
    },
    {
      "body": "Fuck that, nothing drains my desire to play this game than reminding myself that I need to 6-Link my chest piece and then, if there's a minor upgrade, I can't use it because I would have to 6-Link that one. \n\n6-Link is stupid and forces a slot to be very inflexible. Thank god that is going to be dead.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "[deleted]",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "I'd much rather do that than have it tied to armor. I'll upgrade my armor far more often if I don't have to worry about six linking it."
            },
            {
              "body": "I'm 99% sure it is confirmed that orb of fusings will be removed and linking is automatic and assured acrossed all gems, so this argument is invalid",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "[deleted]",
                  "replies": [
                    {
                      "body": "Jewellers are nowhere near as rare as fusings, and much less are needed for 6 sockets. Also, if they put the 6 sockets vendor recipe to gems, it will be even more plentiful as a single gem takes much less space than a body armor in the inventory. I understand the 6 link frustration and I also live it (as an SSF player) but come on 6 socketting has never been a problem unless you never put a foot in maps",
                      "replies": [
                        {
                          "body": "[deleted]",
                          "replies": [
                            {
                              "body": "Why would they make the jewellers or drop rate much worse when the aim of this update is to ease and streamline the linking process that doesn't make any sense.\n\nGetting 6 links left and right isn't against GGG's phylosophy when 6L becomes a given and they balance around it, which is the direction they seem to take so that 6 linking isn't this slog compulsory step anymore but just something everybody have."
                            }
                          ]
                        }
                      ]
                    }
                  ]
                }
              ]
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "6 linking is not going away, it transfers to the main gem",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "Yeah, no shit. The issue is not the 6-link, it's the fact that it's tied to your equipment. \n\nNow that it's tied to the gem itself, it's a non issue. Sure, you won't be able to easily get yourself an early 6-link corrupted chest or tabula, but I will take the 6-link gem over that any that of the week."
            },
            {
              "body": "And that's fine. What's important is that it no longer invalidates body amour with good mods but no 6 link."
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "[deleted]",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "... Good games can have stupid things in them.  6 linking tied to gear has always made end game upgrades an absolute pain in the ass in terms of weapons or armors. There's nothing more fun than planning an upgrade craft only to be annoyed at the fact that I better 6 link it too or it's not better.\n\nThe concept of the 6 link is good. The implementation is shit."
            },
            {
              "body": "I don't see personally why the 6 link is good. It's the core of any build out there while being the hardest to get"
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "But now you need to six socket your skill gems, and if you're trying to corrupt for 21 you need to six socket them first.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "To me this feels ok because I only have to 21 qual + 6 link my main skill gem once each league and at that point I don't ever have a strong incentive to replace it. My chestpiece on the other hand tends to be constantly out of date in the current game because of the high cost associated with replacing it.",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": " Lets say you need an equal amount of currency to 6 link your gem as you need now to 6 link your chest piece. Lets call  that currency fusings. Lets say  1000 fusings to make it cheaper. First of, how many gems do we need to 6link to be viable?  1,2 all?\n\nNow imagine having a perfect 20, you vaal it, it fails, luckily you leveled a second one and 6linked it, you vaal it, it fails again.\n\nI really hope they make it way easter to get those 6 links or it will be horrible.",
                  "replies": [
                    {
                      "body": "If it ends up being that bad I'll just run level 20 gems for those spots. I might want to upgrade my body armour 10-15 times on a single character over the course of progression. \n\nIn reality I'll probably just end up buying a 6 linked level 21 skill gem from someone mass producing them.",
                      "replies": [
                        {
                          "body": "you realize you running 20 gems means you have to 6 link 20 gems ? Or at least after every bad vaal.  If it is that bad.\n\nAnd if you decide to buy a 6linked gem you could also buy a 6 linked chest :-)\n\nOk that last one sucks because chests have stats,  but ill never go back on my word so take it  \\^\\^"
                        }
                      ]
                    },
                    {
                      "body": "> Lets say you need an equal amount of currency to 6 link your gem as you need now to 6 link your chest piece.\n\nGGG already said in the q&a after the initial poe2 reveal that the amount of currency you will need to 6L all relevant gems will be similar to what you need to get one 6L right now. Although this info is obviously years old now so it might've changed since then.\n\nAlso don't forget about tainted currency, tainted jewellers can 6 link a level 21 gem.",
                      "replies": [
                        {
                          "body": "if tainted currency is even still aound at that time :-)"
                        }
                      ]
                    }
                  ]
                }
              ]
            },
            {
              "body": "That's an end game goal that is very much unnecessary. \n\nAlso, six socket skill gems will be as hard as six socket a chest, so a hell of a lot easier."
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "The problem isn't the system its the bullshit % mechanics that are abusive"
        },
        {
          "body": "Go play Hello Kitty Adventure Island then.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "Uh, that's a snarky comment from someone with \"Master Hideout Decorator\". That's something, but, do go on playing House with your little internet dolls.",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "Oh I will.\n\nYou're invited to join. :)"
                }
              ]
            }
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "It decouples the link system from your gear which is a good thing as far as I’m concerned. Was 1 too many layers of “this item is useless because…” with links on gear."
    },
    {
      "body": "I'm the opposite and looking forward to the new gem systen the most. Especially early on during the league it's a headache to replace your gear simply because the good rares you find don't have the right sockets/links/colours so I end up running around with mostly act 1-3 gear for most of the campaign and only look at jewellery for upgrades.\n\nWith the new system any rare I find with better stats is an instant upgrade without having to shuffle any gems around",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "[deleted]",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": ">Making the early game easier would suck so hard\n\nSo think about this for a moment. Lets say you get a pair of boots with 4L, 20% movement speed and some res rolls early on in the campaign. That's your \"fuck yeah\" moment. Then for the next 7 acts you don't swap your boots because you don't need to. You swap some gems every now and then in the boots, but you're playing a bow raider so you're mostly using green gems anyway so those 4G boots work fine even though you swapped the gems in the boots a couple of times, and even after semi-rerolling from self cast bows to ballistas you only need one red socket and you're done. Then at like level 80 you realize your boots are beyond trash and decide to finally upgrade them because now you kinda have to.\n\nNow?\n\nEvery single active gem you want to use will need it's own, separate links. You got a 3L gem early in act 1, woop woop. Then by end of act 1 you swap the gem you want to level with and you need to get links on that as well. Then when you get to act 3 you get another new gem you swap to and need to link that, too.\n\nThen you have to link your aura setups, your utility setups, your everything else, every single time you need to swap a gem.\n\nGetting a 4L pair of boots which can easily roll colors you can fit in to your build is very likely much simpler than getting a 4L gem drop of every single gem you actually want to use.\n\nYes, they're increasing droprates for fusings jewellers to compensate the need to link more 6L's than before, but the end result is that it's probably not going to be any easier than it was before. Likely both will be frustrating at times and will have \"fuck yeah\" moments at others."
            }
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "Nobody knows how this will feel until we try it for a while. I see the merits of both, but I think being able to just slap on gear in the early game will be a breath of fresh air. Don’t love being married to my blue helmet or something because it’s the only 4 link with the right colors I’ve found in 3 acts. My biggest concern is how we’re going to be able to reliably transition to 3-5 link gems at that same stage. Are quests going to give something like orbs of binding? If not you could see some serious feast or famine with jeweler spam on your main skill."
    },
    {
      "body": "The new system is a more flexible way to do it. It will also allow the option Two have more than 1 6 links to any build. It also adds another item type to the drop table. I think overall is a very system. As far as I know chromes will not be a thing so, the item has to drop with the colors and links you need. Am I wrong?."
    },
    {
      "body": "The new skill gem system will be more or less the same it is now with more opportunities than we have now.\n\nThe cool stuff we'll be getting is absurd. Being able to do stuff like have a secondary 6L totem setup for single target on builds that don't run with a 2h weapon or just entirely separate 6L clear and 6L single target skills is great. Being able to put all auras into one gem and then toggle all auras with one button press is amazing. \n\nThe new gem system will have fundamentals. You'll still have to fuse 6L's, you'll still have to chrome your sockets and you'll still have to plan your links. Now you just don't have to do all that every single time you get an upgrade because you don't need to worry about the sockets being on the actual item.\n\nIt's the current gem system with more QoL and more possibilities attached to it.\n\nI see absolutely nothing but positives on the new gem system"
    },
    {
      "body": "the fact that you're supposed to get a backup of your weapon/armor before you throw fuses at a 5l trying to get 6l is just weird imo (it'll be much easier to keep a backup of a 5l gem while you try to 6l it, especially because sometimes you might use a very niche item, and not a cheap unique, so getting a backup might be pretty annoying)\n\nIt happens so often during the campaign as well where you find an item that would be an upgrade, but it's just not a 4l and losing 1-2 links on your skills autamatically means that it's not usable even though the stats on the item would be an upgrade.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "And spending jewels/fusings/chromes on something you will only use for an hour feels like shit."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "It will be more fun to have like lower priority skills be 6 linked like utility, movement, secondary dmg, qol skills, etc. Right now its just main dmg skill that gets 6 link prio, i think its more fun when all skills will"
    },
    {
      "body": "Imaging having 6 x 6 L gems. ( currently we can only have 2 or 3 )"
    },
    {
      "body": "The problem is that PoE is a 1 botton game pretty much. It's all about juicing up a single 6-link with other support sklls. This is a very dated skill system.\n\nIn PoE2 they aim to make the gameplay much more modern allowing us to 6-link several skills so we can have true ability combos when playing. This definitely sounds like a step up."
    },
    {
      "body": "Worries are fair, as I myself as well am already accustomed to the current system. But I do understand why they want to change it. Probably the only thing I'll be missing IS the limiting factors for sockets, as you only had few 6-links and mainly 4-links to work it. In my opinion it's a friction that makes things interesting. But the new socket system encourages players to experiment at first, as you are more likely to find new skill gem drops with more sockets than what you are currently wearing, than you are to upgrading your current skills. Until you have the currency on subsequent characters of course.\n\nBy the way if you guys did not realize or remember, you are forced to change your starting skill gems during the game, as the maximum number of sockets is still limited by the item level of the gem as it has been with gear. :D"
    },
    {
      "body": "Im holding back my opinion since  i havent seen what would happen to item skills and item supports as well what determines the number and color of sockets in a gem.\nHowever i think the new system seems more streamlined imo and easier to get 6l. So im mildly optimistic"
    },
    {
      "body": "So do you actually like build around 1 or 2 skill only?\n I love the game but thats actually the main thing i would change.\n I think with the new system you will be able to build around elements or skill type instead of one single skill with a bunch of buffs and debuffs",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "I mean, this is a complex issue. When you say building around 1 or 2 skills you clearly mean skills which deal damage to the enemy because no build operates on 2 or less skills total. Things like movement skills, buffs (warcries, blood rage, etc), guard skills, and totems factor into most builds and while games like D4 involve more active damaging abilities in your kit, you actually use more skills overall in PoE.\n\nPersonally, I much prefer PoE's system where each skill you use is meant to serve a very specific purpose or solve a very specific problem. I don't like the older Blizzard ARPG approach as much where you have spell 1, spell 2, and spell 3 and you need to use them in the right order to get the ideal amount of damage. I much prefer having my simple interaction for dealing damage but then let each additional ability in my kit have it's own function (even if many of those functions are just giving me a damage buff). I also like how much you can automate in PoE by improving your build - something that used to be a button might trigger automatically now that you have item X or modifier Y."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "Kinda understand OP stand point, the gem system is like the **Charm** of the whole PoE system as a whole beside the giant passive tree, but nonetheless we'll have to wait and see how the new system turns out, could be good could be bad but we'll have to be open mind and welcoming changes ... is POE **TWO** afterall, not just another 4.0 expansion 👍"
    },
    {
      "body": "Personally, I am only worried about the system because I'm a lazy 1 button gamer and with multiple available six links the end game content is likely to be balanced around using multiple skills in tandem which sounds annoying,  otherwise it just seems better because getting sockets and colors is generally annoying.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "[deleted]",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "This completely ignores his complaint of the game being balanced around using multiple skills. Did you even read his comment?",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": " Uniques that implicitly doesn't a socket but boost damage big time could have a use for 1 button people"
                }
              ]
            }
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "What? New socketing system is literally one of the best things about PoE2.\n\nIt will make items drops MUCH more exiting as you will be able to focus on... you know.... an actual item instead of looking at sockets first\n\nNot to mention it's gonna enable so much more build potential. (multiple 6 links)"
    },
    {
      "body": "Im actually most excited for the skill system 😃"
    },
    {
      "body": "You're not wrong. \n\nI also agree with a lot of this overall point of this post.\n\n\\[FYI I have about 35k+ hours in PoE\\]"
    },
    {
      "body": "What we saw was a super-alpha socket system.  I wouldn't get your hopes up that PoE 2 is going to change the skill system as much as they said."
    },
    {
      "body": "It's so weird to see people now complain about 6linking. It's so much easier now it's not even funny. Compared to back then like Incursion league, yea it was a chore but now? Even 6L corrupted armors/weaps are super easy to obtain. Throw some 29% qual too on top! Blows my mind how people here making mountains out of mole hills."
    },
    {
      "body": "Personally I'm excited for it simply because it can open up for more builds using more than one main damage skill.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "Tell me you're a Diablo player without saying it.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "So wanting more variety is suddenly not something a POE player would want?  \nI've not even touched D3 or D4.",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "There's a lot to unpack with that statement.\n\nIn short. \n\nIt futher casualizes the game and creates a clown-easy way to roflstomp through the game.\n\n\"Oh your build sucks and your dmg not getting through/you're dying alot? Just switch to number 2 full stacked skill bro\"\n\nNo. Just no."
                }
              ]
            }
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "Because you cant even see whats going on screen in endgame. I believe they will try to address this issue."
    },
    {
      "body": "There's at least two things PoE 2 could do to completely crush the competition, Offline trading and proper PvP.\n\nNot too hot on any new skill system myself, it's not what's discouraging me from the game."
    },
    {
      "body": "i just hope it doesn't turn into a skill rotation/cooldown fiesta."
    },
    {
      "body": "skill system won't change, they're just removing links from gear. It barely changes anything."
    }
  ]
}