{
"post": {
"title": "We need Plarium to have competition and Dragonheir is helping us with that.",
"selftext": "Stop fooling yourself. Plarium is not listening to YOU. They are listening to your money.\n\nRaid was the only good game in the genre (at least that I know of) but now Dragonheir is probably taking their players. \n\nI downloaded the game myself and got a Legendary before the game even launched, but I didn't like the game that much.\n\nPlarium analysts are probably seeing players are living and probably not spending in Raid to spend in Dragonheir, that's why they are doing these changes to Primal Shards.",
"url": "https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidShadowLegends/comments/16v1zii/we_need_plarium_to_have_competition_and/"
},
"comments": [
{
"body": "Just like EE was supposedly competition right 🤣",
"replies": [
{
"body": "out of the games mentioned in this thread, (wor, dragonheir) i do think that EE was the best of the bunch for a while. They respected the players time, they added qol frequently and were quite f2p friendly. dailies could be done in 30-60 minutes depending on what you were doing and they added content on a regular basis.\nthen they paywalled a pretty important hero(nord) and then really jumped the shark with koraxia a character that cost 3k to max out before even buying her exclusive. \nso then i uninstalled it.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Every game starts out good and then turns to shit over time. Its inevitable with all gachas. In a year all these competitors will start power creeping harder and harder and paywalling more and more"
},
{
"body": "I played EE for a bit never got that into it. Felt like most of my progression was based on the red crystals. Of which it was a slow daily grind just login collect the campaign grindings and then logout enough times to upgrade everyone. The next step up was going to take me at least one month of just doing that so I stopped. \n\nThen Jgigs released a video talking about how EE added a dungeon for grinding the red crystals as a good thing. I was hyped for it but then realised that it unlocked after stage 18 of the campaign and I was on stage 8 LMAO."
},
{
"body": "what is EE? What is WOR?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "eternal evolution and watcher of realms."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Anddd awaken chaos era."
},
{
"body": "It's the whole \"This MMORPG will kill World of Warcraft.\"\n\nPlarium will likely be the ones to destroy RAID, not some outside company. Competition is always good though."
},
{
"body": "What is EE Stand for?",
"replies": [
{
"body": " Eternal evolution"
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Only thing dragonheir and raid have in common is that you collect champions. \nVery different games",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I think that people is mentioning Dragonheir as the RSL killer because Hell Hades is playing it now. I watched a little bit the gameplay and both are very different."
},
{
"body": "This. \n\nI tried it. And yuck. Nothing like Raid."
},
{
"body": "My point still stands tho.\n\nIt's a game where people that play Raid are playing now, as well as Watchers of the Realm.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "My issue with dragonheir is that, they remove your champs at the end of a season and, you need to collect again. That defeats the purpose of a gacha",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It was my understanding they removed your levels and gear, you keep your champions."
}
]
},
{
"body": "I've downloaded WotR too.\nI enjoy much it cause i love Tower Defense like game, but it's not a competitor, as I still playing Raid.\nYou have competition when you face same type.\nEx. Fortnite vs Warzone is a competition.\nYou can't compare Fortnite vs Overwatch just because they are base shooter, different playstile = different game."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Or you can just enjoy the game for what it is until you don't and do something else with our time and money. Expect nothing from any private companies, there is not a single one in the world that gives a damn about you. Use them for what they can bring you while you need it, then move on."
},
{
"body": "Basically, Plarium has gotten complacent because they've been the market leader for almost half a decade now but with options such as Watcher of Realms, Dragonheir and King Arthur coming out, they'll be challenged on their unique selling point which is (until now) unparallelled visuals, graphics and design.\n\nThus with all things being equal, players have an actual choice of which game to go for and they'll choose with their wallets.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Yeah, and Plarium will try to keep their players if they don't want the game to die. And with this, they are \"forced\" to care more about the game. \n\nOr they don't care at all and the game will keep being handled like what it currently is: cash cow.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "The actual out ole is going to be that they'll go Termination mode.\n\nThis means that they'll keep releasing more and more broken shit to milk the player base dry without actually releasing any meaningful content and call the EoS once they've had enough.\n\nProbably already working in Raid 2: Light Odyssey and their new updated graphics.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "If they terminate raid they'll never attract whales to any game they make in the future again.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "This won't happen overnight.\n\nBut the end is in such a dire spot that it's going to be bleeding out before long. Hell, you could stay it's already started"
},
{
"body": "If Plarium kills RSL, I personally won't ever play, or at least never invest a cent, in any of their games ever. It's the first and only game I spent any money on aside from purchasing computer/console games."
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "I still play RSL because of the visual. No other game that I know of matches Raid in terms of the visual. However I really want to change to other game that won't take so much of my time. The issue is time in grinding for the right gears, masteries, getting the champs I want from shards. Getting shards itself is also a big challenge. I enjoy building champ and test new comp though but it's tiring just to grind on a daily basis. The tournament is unfair because they allow RSL helper. \n\nI am looking forward in trying WoR.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I played wor for a bit in release, then got bored. Pulled 4 legos right away, tho. Tower defense just kind of got stale, quick for me."
}
]
},
{
"body": "Is there an actual competitor that is the same type of game?\n\n\\- You summon heroes\n\n\\- You have levels of skills\n\n\\- You go into content that has X champs and they do abilities based on presets\n\n\\- It's friendly to being afk / auto\n\nWatcher of Realms seems closest, but it's a tower defense so not anywhere near the same\n\nI played Dragonheir for 2 hours, didn't seem to be similar at all. It's like a JRPG.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Infinite Magicraid is the only good copy I've seen so far.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Is it worth trying out? Or would I be starting years behind the curve?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I've been playing for a little over a month and a half and the progress is definitely faster than Raid while wasting way less time daily. It has some nice quality of life stuff like multibattle going on while offline. It's still pay to win mind you, and pvp for the most part has the same 3 heroes used by everyone, but it's easier to advance.\n\nAlready diamond, and you can get the Arbiter equivalent in around a month. It's definitely scratching that raid itch, and i feel decently strong already. Oh and the events are easier to max out rewards, and you get some shards, and at 100 shards you can buy a hero, but unlike raid events, they are the best rarity in the game not just a legendary, they can't drop anywhere else, and you can pick which one you want, they arent time limited.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Sounds pretty good, I might try it out!\n\nAny quick tips, like pull all my shards the second I log in and remake until I get X champ, or rush to do Y dungeon asap, etc.?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I went with whatever i got first time, but there is a really easy hero you want to max out first, his name is Mackin, is an epic only but is an insane damage dealer and will carry you in the campaign. Otherwise i think the only thing i'd recommend is focusing in doing a lot of the beginner events since they give you a TON of rewards. \n\nOh a big problem i have with the game is that there are barely any content creators, so you need to figure out what works for you because there are barely any guides for it."
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "You don’t have to be the exact same genre to be a competitor. They are fantasy games with more realistic graphics. That’s why many raid players are trying them out.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "You kinda do. Gamers will try them out, but if tower defense games aren’t your thing, you aren’t going to switch from Raid, a turn based skills game, to a tower defense game",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I get that they're not for everyone, but they're for enough people to effect Raid. That combined with other similar games coming out, Raid should be worried. And their trends show this.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Not really. To affect raid they have to keep those players and keep them as long term spenders. \n\nThe trends show that mythical champs and primal shards were not well received."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Doesn't have the same control over the AI but Summoners War celebrated 9 years in the genre and out of every single gatcha is the most free to play friendly while also supplying the most in catch up mechanics to newer players.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Is it worth trying out? Or would I be starting years behind the curve?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "You would of course be years behind if your sole goal was to be high ranked in say RTA (Live arena equivalent). For the rest of the game you can take at your leisure. I'd highly suggest for a starting content creator Sean B on YouTube as he makes a free to play beginner guide every single year. For helpful people in game hit up channel 140, best people you'll meet."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Having played DH, it is not a good game. 100% of the players I know DH quit quickly and came back including myself. Of all the supposed Raid killers, I played it was the worst. DH isn’t even the same genre.\n\nMaybe the other new games are competition but DH isn’t it.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I second this.\n\nI couldn't get into DH. I also played Watcher of Realms and that isn't even close to a Raid killer either (felt more like an interactive puzzle than anything else). I will admit that DH has more interactive controls than Raid or WoR but there's just something about Raid that keeps me hooked. I almost want to say its simplicity and afk aspect keep me here. I only spend 10/month on Raid for the gem pack and I like the fact that it's akin to World of Warcraft in the respect that it may not be the most visually stunning game on the market but I control how immersive I want the game to be. I could spend 10 minutes or hours a day and I will get the same enjoyment either way. \n\nI can't speak about the King Arthur game since I haven't played it (which actually looks amazing (in my opinion) and might give RSL some competition) but I'll likely be playing RSL until the end."
},
{
"body": "I don’t know, I’m really enjoying DH. Maybe because I’ve played other games with the Seasonal model so it wasn’t as much of a turn-off to me as it could be to other players. It’s just a different game to Raid, and I think a lot of people were expecting Raid 2.0"
}
]
},
{
"body": "If you want to more run on the map and talk to characters then better play BG3 )))",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Nah, as I said, I didn't like the game"
}
]
},
{
"body": "Tried Dragonheir in beta and wasn't keen. It's not really a Raid rival as it's a completely different game, more RPG and Defend the Tower rather than a turn-based Hero Collector.\n\nAlso, I wonder how many people realize that Dragonheir plans to reset every few months so although you keep your champions you lose everything else?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Honestly I think seasons are one of the best things about dh. It's a baked in catch up mechanic for new players.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Yeah, that’s not comparable to RAID though. Nobody who’s into hero collectors is gonna wanna re gear and re level all their champions again. It defeats the entire purpose of hero collecting"
}
]
},
{
"body": "wait what so imma lose my items? also how did you know this?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "The developer calls them \"seasons\" - each new season, all your equipment and progress is reset, ready for you to start afresh. It's the main reason why a lot of us dropped the game in beta.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "bruh even the character levels? im kinda ok with them resetting items and stuff but leveling up is such a pain",
"replies": [
{
"body": "The only thing that remains after the reset is the characters you pulled, but they all go back to lvl 1."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "I'm near sure you loose your champs, I remember stew gaming saying it"
},
{
"body": "that is insane. no wonder though coming from the people that made marvel snap."
}
]
},
{
"body": "Do any of the 'raid competitors' have a standalone pc client?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Watcher of Realms does"
}
]
},
{
"body": "Where are you getting your information that suggests players are quitting Raid to play Dragonheir? Also, do you have a contact inside Plarium who told you why Plarium does things? \n\nYou seem to have inside knowledge, and it's very impressive. Are you some kind of spy, able to find out information that no-one else has? Or are you just smarter than all of us? You seem very smart.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "My sister is the boss side chick."
}
]
},
{
"body": " \"Plarium was the only good game in the genre\"\n\nTell me more of this Plarium game you speak of...?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Hahaha ma bad"
}
]
},
{
"body": "Why would they spend? Your first sentence was that U didn't like the game, so why would anybody who doesn't like the game spend money on It.\n\nThey notice a difference in buyers, since a lot of CCs stopped paying for in game purchases and a lot of people leaving, including mega krakens, their revenue dropped to 40%\n\nSo they have to change stuff or people are simply not gonna buy anymore. The primal shard change was still to insignificant. 7 for 50 bucks that's like 7 dollar a piece while voids are counted as 3 dollar a piece while having only double the rate for non void leggos and that few mythical champs which are honestly worse than a lot of voids and no voids. \n\nHopefully they learn and change stuff otherwise they'll lose their playerbase in the next 2years",
"replies": [
{
"body": "\n>, their revenue dropped to 40%\n\nWhere is this number coming from?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "HH supposedly said new installs dropped by 40% but now he is getting misquoted.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Installs -> revenue\nBy 40% -> to 40%\n\n\nLmao, seems legit"
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "[deleted]",
"replies": [
{
"body": "In what part did I say it is going to get better?\n\nI just said Plarium needs competition and they are reducing the price of Primal Shards because players are leaving.\n\nGo back to school.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "[deleted]",
"replies": [
{
"body": "If players are leaving Raid to try Dragonheir or any other game, that's already competition, it doesn't really matter if it is the same genre or not.\n\nIt is not really hard to think and you should start trying.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "[deleted]",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Looks like you took your day to be obtuse on purpose. It's like trying to talk with a rock.\n\nHave a good day.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It’s not obtuse, it’s calling out your bad talking point cause you wanna be right. Gamers play lots of other games. Lots of people have RAID on their phone + tons of other games. That doesn’t mean all those other games are suddenly competition. Competition are games that are in the same genre and draw in people who would download raid. This makes literally no sense"
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "It's a shame you loose your champs at the end of a season"
}
]
},
{
"body": "lol."
},
{
"body": "You mean Watcher of Realms right",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Yeah, it can be WoR too. Any game that takes some of Raid players."
}
]
},
{
"body": "People need to speak with their wallets and stop making purchases.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "That's the only way.\n\nBut there are people who 5k a week is nothing. People who make that money in hours."
}
]
},
{
"body": "I'm absolutely stunned it took so long for this to happen given how dismissive Plarium has been.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I'm not, to an extent. The problem has never been that it's hard to make a better game than Raid. It's not, Raid as a game is highly mediocre and has lived on the fact that it has had no real competition. People make better games from their parents' basement all the time, though perhaps without the impressive graphics.\n\nWhat the problem is, is that making a better game isn't enough, you also need a huge pile of money up front to advertise your game. You'll be running at millions in losses when you start up, and unless the game is a hit, you won't be making that money back. It's a big risk, and that's what's keeping a lot of actors out of the market when a giant like Raid is already established. I don't know exactly what changed now. Maybe others have been monitoring the situation and finally smelled some blood in the water, realized that Plarium was not sitting as securely as they thought, and decided that now was the time to strike.\n\nNow comes the interesting part, how successful the new games are and what Plarium will do in response. They'll have to do something if these new games start eating up market shares. Best case scenario, they'll try to improve the game and not just for the whales but for everyone, in order to retain players and stop the new games from poaching them. Worst case, they'll decide that's too much effort, consider the game at the end of its life cycle, double down on P2W stuff and catering to the whales, and squeeze the game for what it's worth until there's nothing left to squeeze.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "That's what blows my mind - with some investment you can easily make a game that blows Raid out of the water, I'm just thoroughly surprised no one had taken the bait until recently-ish considering how much money Raid makes.\n\nGiven how Raid has been on a downwards trajectory for a while maybe it's as you said - they notice the game's metrics are all going down and decided to strike now.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Yes, well, that \"some investment\" can amount to hundreds of millions of USD. It's not the development costs, it's advertisement. If we were to get actual numbers on what the costs are for Raid, I'm sure many people would be surprised at just how much money is spent on things that have nothing to do with the game itself.\n\nI vaguely remember reading some figures for AAA video games, and I think it was a Call of Duty or Battlefield title a few years ago that held the record at the time, spending 5x the money on marketing they did on the actual development of the game. Now remember how much marketing Raid has done and how simple the game is compared to an AAA title, and I suspect that 5x will be off by an order of magnitude.\n\nMaking the game is not the problem, it's having it make money that is. You start out with 0 income and a development debt. Then you have to pay for marketing or it'll take years before people even know your game exists. Then you have to hope that people will actually like your game, or you're done either way. Through all of this, you have a rival established game that is already making bank that can outspend you without even running at a loss in order to minimize the effect of your own attempt to break in. It's a massive risk to take.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Entirely questionable and debatable. I am fully aware a lot of games dump way too much into marketing but it is by no means an obligatory thing to do.\n\nRaid used to be on every single video on Youtube and being advertised by every single CC with more than 69 subscribers, so no one is surprised. What is a fact is that Marketing is on the \"optional\" bubble of budget spending. What's mandatory is making a decent game, and that's often not too insanely expensive - especially if it's a mobile game. Unfortunately most mobile games are aware mobile gamers are about as sentient as a monkey having a brain aneurysm so most of the money that should go into the game goes straight to marketing.\n\nIf you spend hundreds of millions on marketing to add Primal shards then SurprisedPikachuFace.jpg at how all your players are leaving I'm not going to count those marketing costs into account. Make a good game and the rest will work itself out."
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "leaving\\*",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Oh wow. Did you really take your time to correct a word that got autocorrected by a keyboard that isn't even in english?\n\nYou are either pitiful or have plenty of time to spare.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "No need to take it personally, everybody make typos... Just edit your post so that the typo is corrected, and move on...",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I tell you the same. You saw a typo and immediately knew what it was supposed to be written. Just keep reading or not and move on, bro.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "You're too thin-skinned to post on public forums imo. Anyway, have a good day.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "If you think so, cool.\n\nHave a good day too."
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "I'm quite enjoying everlegion, which is much the same as eternal evolution in a fantasy skin. \n\nNice things: \n1. Gear swaps are not only free but encouraged via a gear interface. \n2. \"Sweep\" various boss battles. Only fight if you think your team has improved enough to getbetter rewards. \n3. Individual hero graphics are decent. Battles use small toons, so nothing on raid there, but the single character screen is up there. \n4. LOW price packages. It's still a gacha but you can get a lot more for a lot less money. \n5. Ascending gear improves all stats, not some random one."
},
{
"body": "There's also Watcher of Realms. I've personally started playing that and so have Hell Hades and Ash. Between that and Dragon Heir, there are finally competitors with similar styles/feel that could compete."
},
{
"body": "\nRa"
},
{
"body": ">Stop fooling yourself. Plarium is not listening to YOU. They are listening to your money.\n\nThis is true for all gacha games. It's just other games are better at masking it or know they don't have the player base that raid has. So they won't risk turning up the ultimate greed nob."
},
{
"body": "Sadly Dragonheir got that \"season\" thingy that makes you reset several things and start over again which at least for me wasn't something enjoyable to continue playing. As for Plarium i agree company was/is/and never will be for players. They are here to make money and keep the addiction going."
},
{
"body": "I still vastly prefer Hoyoverses gacha model to raids. You can actually guarantee results in their games, and dailies literally take 10 minutes max, any additional time you spend in the game is just to experience the game itself. Quests, story, exploration, etc."
},
{
"body": "cant be serious, dragonheir doesnt have the legs"
},
{
"body": "Dumb question: Are games like star wars heroes or afk arena consider direct competition to raid? Or are they completely different?"
},
{
"body": "Here I am just wishing I could have unlocked, Ruel the Huntmaster..."
},
{
"body": "Miss the days of not spending"
}
]
}