{
"post": {
"title": "A few more nodes from the passive skill tree in PoE2.",
"selftext": "",
"url": "https://i.redd.it/jcp2u8sl3x2e1.png"
},
"comments": [
{
"body": "wtf overleech on the tree?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Wild that it doesn't even come with a downside. So potent.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "this must be a sign leech is very weak in poe2, no way this just sits on the tree for everyone to grab",
"replies": [
{
"body": ">this must be a sign leech is very weak in poe2\n\nThis has been my suspicion for a while.\n\nThey are trying to make chip damage matter, so they don't have to resort to one shots to kill players. So you have to nerf the shit out of ways to recover your life passively, otherwise people just don't die unless it's one shots.\n\nMight not be as noticeable in maps while you are refilling your health flask, but probably will matter more in boss fights. I don't think I've seen any clips of boss fights that have sacrificial mobs to give you flask charges.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "My personal hunch is GGG is trying to fix/change on how defense and recovery works in poe 2 compared to poe 1. In poe 1, players are constantly in a state of 0 and 1, 99% of the time you are at full life, 0.1% you got chunked to somewhere between 1 to 99% life, 0.9% of the time you died. This is because damage has to be spikey to overcome great sustains and recovery options players have to be able to pose threat and to kill them. In poe 2, because recovery isn't as intense, maybe now 70% of the time you're in full life, 10% around 3/4, 10% around 1/2 and 10% below that. Less spikey, let you fight your way out in critical situations for the butt clenching experience.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Cheeks are tight"
},
{
"body": "This has been my take looking at the content dropped the past few days, and I'm so excited if it shapes up this way.\n\nWhen you have a fight that can go on bruise after bruise, it gives more time to feel the tension and the back and forth. Highly-mechanical fights are often fun only if a single fast mistake or instance of bad luck doesn't just immediately end the whole encounter. PoE1 definitely has some of this problem at the high level, but it's a common problem across gaming in \"difficult design\" patterns (look at raids in Lost Ark for how overly-punishing mechanics can warp a whole game)."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "I'm assuming this node will be in the str/dex area, which means it would be an absolute pain in the ass for bloodmage to get, and from what we've seen so far, leech support only applies to physical attacks, so it seems to be fairly limited",
"replies": [
{
"body": "at least for bloodmage we can anoint it, which is cool",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I guess since it has no downside it can't be a keystone although it defo could've been",
"replies": [
{
"body": "i think keystones have this fancier border, like glancing blows is 100% a keystone and it has these 3 \"spikes(?)\" on each side, whereas notables have this crescent-moon-like art",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Probably correct on that! I also went and checked out the sources video on these, the guy has a lot of videos that go over stuff and probably more to come! [https://www.youtube.com/@dreamcore\\_gg/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@dreamcore_gg/videos)"
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "if thats a notable it will be anointable (the cost will probably be whispers of doom level tho)\n\nand yeah getting the source of leech might be hard, but I just checked and bloodmage gets 10% spell damage leeched as life... so thats broken\n\nand it sounds so broken that idk if I won't play this instead of gem merc\n\n \n[https://poe2db.tw/us/Witch#Witch](https://poe2db.tw/us/Witch#Witch)",
"replies": [
{
"body": "monsters have leech resistances and our damage is much lower. Some of the chars in the reveal only had 20k dps in faction bosses, so that would be 2k hp/s before leech resistance. So depending on how harsh leech resistances are, leech might not be that crazy. And considering how many crazy-sounding leech passives there are, I think most enemies and bosses will have high leech resistance to balance it out. Leech has been such a balance nightmare for ggg that theres no way they would let it be broken again would they? haha",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Our damage is much lower?\n\nBro we haven't even got a full passive tree or anything.\n\nProbablythe best builds will be doing 1000x the damage of an okay build. \n\nThey still have the philosophy of allowing loads of thigns to stack.. of always having a way to improve your character.. damage will be jsut as insane as poe1 because their design philosophy really hasn't changed in waysthat would prevent this.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Im going based off what characters they showed in the reveal. These characters were fighting pinnacle bosses and the damage counter showed that none of the characters were reaching even 50k dps. \n\nAnd about the stacking, they've made changes to lessen the crazy exponential stacking a bit. Damage conversion no longer benefits from both damage increases. 20% phys to fire? 80% will scale only with phys, 20% will only scale with fire. Most support gem effects are 20% to 30% more damage instead on 40%+. Of course there's going to be plenty other damage scalars, but these changes alone show that they intend for our damage numbers to be lower than poe1's.\n\nThat's what I believe their intention is, but I'm not saying that the community won't find an op build doing millions of dps."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "You can anoint it, as it is a noteable not a keystone 😎\nWe will see if they buff the sanguimancer with overleech and other cool stuff.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Seems i've skipped this change. How we can anoint in poe2 without blight? Oils come from other encounter?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Yes, they come from Delirium now 😎\nWhich is actually a great change, I hate Blight 😅"
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "I believe leech stacks last 1 second by default now. Heard it from one of the alpha players but can't remember who."
},
{
"body": "They mentioned ages ago leech was changed to be extremely simple, but monsters gained 'leech resistance' based on their level.\n\nSo with 5% leech a 100 damage hit on a level 1 mob should recover 5 life over the leech duration, which is believed to be 1 second at this stage.\n\nWhat we don't know is how high the monsters leech resistance scales. Might simply be 1% per level or something else entirely."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Apparently the reworked leech lasts for a short duration in PoE 2, so it's not like you will be constantly topping your life up with that node whenever you take damage.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I think I heard 1 second duration for an instance"
},
{
"body": "Yes, 1 second. Monsters also get ever more 'leech resistance' as you progress to later parts of the game."
}
]
},
{
"body": "Hope the same is true for ES!"
},
{
"body": "Leech is completely reworked. In short, you leech less against monsters with higher leech resistance. Level of monster defines leech resistance)"
}
]
},
{
"body": "Grenades baby.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I believe it will be a possible boss killer, much like traps were in PoE1"
},
{
"body": "I’d willingly gulp down anything in POE2 that resembles my lovely explo traps. So cluster grenades it is baby!"
},
{
"body": "I will be firing grenades until the bosses kick me out the map."
}
]
},
{
"body": "They didn't lie when they said that notables are interesting. There are some really cool ones",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Yes, I think so too, especially for block builds. It's no wonder there were changes in PoE1's 3.25 league."
}
]
},
{
"body": "levitate op"
},
{
"body": "I think it's a little interesting there is stats to speed up weapon swap.\n\nI kind of got the impression they wanted this to be normal gameplay and seemless, not something you build specifically for. But will people really want to swap weapons if the swap time is a limiting point, especially if it's on a specific spot on the tree? \n\nMaybe it will be less noticeable than I'm reading into here. Might be more of an active skill vs. occasional situation.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "This makes me a bit worried too, the automatic weapon swap seems like such a cool idea but if the time it takes to swap is a big limiting factor everyone not in range of the node will have to use their anoint on it. They could also make it a more accessible stat that you can get on gloves and jewels. For example you would need \\~80%speed for swap to feel good which could be solved by this node and a jewel, or a gloves suffix and a jewel. \n\nMaking weaponswap tech come at a slight cost would discourage the feeling that it is something you are forced to use.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "The design seems to be that it shouldn't be a big hurdle unless you're swapping every other attacks. And if you do, it would be worth considering points like these.\nI assume that when they showcase the swapping mechanic with the sorceress and her 2 staves, it was the base swap speed in action."
}
]
},
{
"body": "It's under a second isn't it? At least that's what's it's looked like, still cutting like .2-.5 seconds off a swap probably feels nice for melee builds."
},
{
"body": "i think that is more usefull for fast casting multi elemental sorceres then it is for a titan who has a shield setup as secondary."
}
]
},
{
"body": "I hadn't even considered weapon swaps taking time in the first place, since they don't in poe1.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It's faster to swap to your pistol than to reload your weapon"
},
{
"body": "They do have a cooldown in PoE1 due to some very creative cast on weapon swap builds destroying the game.\n\n\nProbably natural to assume there's effects in PoE2 that activate on weapon swap that this node would synergize with. ",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Cast on minion death, have different sets of perm minions on each weapon set, switch between them to summon new oens/have your old ones instantly die.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "That's roughly how cast on weapon swap works in PoE1, but with Heartbound loop middleman cut out since there's a direct trigger gem. \n\n\nBut when I was talking about effects that activate on weapon swap I was referring to something more direct like \"Gain 50 ES on weapon swap\" which is likely to exist with weapon swapping being a more core part of the gameplay loop. "
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "This was something they had mentioned quite awhile back I believe"
},
{
"body": "This bugs me... because a node like this is counter product to the whole point of weapon swapping in the first place, which is to use your passive points to specialize in two different areas effectively... if I have to spend those bonus points just to make Swapping function... and someone who specializes in one weapon gets bonus points... I don't know if the benefit out weights the cost \n \nOf course I haven't seen it all in practice, but in concept... this feels like a huge L"
}
]
},
{
"body": "The new (old) glancing blows makes me think we won't have that much recovery on block, if any. That was the main reason of its nerf in Poe 1."
},
{
"body": "These are all really cool but I'm really looking forward to heralds being a relevant skill again. When packs popped to herald of ice and ash was so satisfying, especially with good mtx"
},
{
"body": "Fast Metabolism having the \"unreserved life\" wording means we can still reserve life in some way. Idk if we knew this already but I thought auras work with spirit now so this is an interesting point",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Normally reservations do work with Spirit. But they might have uniques like Midnight Bargain that specifically reserve life. There might also be other things that change the Spirit reservation behaviour, we've already seen an ascendancy that changes Spirit."
}
]
},
{
"body": "Isn't culling 10%? So 25% will make it 12.5% which is a bit weak.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Cull is 30/20/10/5% on normal/magic/rare/unique enemies",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Ok this actually makes the skill better, just saw witchhunter has culling in the ascendancy and with the one that is up to 30% on the first hit with this talent, you will literally delete normal mobs. you will have the hp bar from 80-70% down to ~38% on normal mobs.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "We really don't know how Decimating Strikes works. All we know is can do 'upto 30% of their life, if your lucky.\". For all we know, it may only trigger on uniques, or rares and uniques, etc. It's very much an unknown.\n\nThat said, I'd tend to agree. I think cull + reverse cull is hilarious.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "True, tho I assume it's be default like a reverse Culling... meaning normal mobs will have that 60% wipe potential, but as the mobs get harder... than you have either have some sort of weapon/node that keeps the % up, or you're looking more like 5% and 5%"
},
{
"body": "If this node works on it too (I assume not due to how it is written) it will be an even smaller percentage of actual hp that needs to be \"killed\"."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Yes, but there might be something else that can scale this."
},
{
"body": "Culling in 2 has different values for different rarity mobs. Uniques will only cull at 5%"
},
{
"body": "the witchhunter has the equivalent of slayer cull iirc, which would be bigger",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It does not, from what we've seen. It just has Cull.\n\nBut cull in Poe2 has a variable range based on rarity of the target. 30/20/10/5% hp values accordingly."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Apocalypse would need to be \"reduced non-herald damage\", because like this seems to be 160% increase, also, do we even know what heralds do now?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "valid options... how are Heralds going to work with Spirit... since it can be assumed as a passive that it requires your Spirit to maintain",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Yes we already know they reserve spirit. The cost can be seen on [poe2db.tw](http://poe2db.tw)"
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Am I missing something or does Bulwark seem like a complete downgrade the way it is? Going from 0% damage taken during a dodge to 70%.\n\nUnless there’s a connected passive that makes it worthwhile like shortened cooldown or extra charges.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "The dodge portion of the roll doesn’t last for the entire roll (you have to time it) but presumably bulwark works for the entire roll",
"replies": [
{
"body": "What is the duration of a roll? This is confusing to me",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Think about it more in terms of animation. \n\nBy default, the avoidance of hits is only working at the start of the roll animation. So effectively you still have to time it.\n\nThis node bypasses that but instead you take less damage during the full roll animation."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "It lets you spam dodge rolling against any attack and have mitigation. Dodge rolling by default is ineffective against AoEs but this gives you mitigation against those too. ",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It says against hits specifically.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "AoEs can be hits too (And usually are). \n\n\nJust to check, I'm not sure if you're responding to the right person since in this same thread someone else mentions this would work against ground effect DoTs (Which you correctly point out it wouldn't). "
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Dodge roll cannot I-frame area of effect damage even if timed perfectly. This would let you take 30% less damage during one. Also, rolling over a damaging ground effect, dot effects on you, etc."
},
{
"body": "from what i understand you cant dodge roll AOE but with this i assume you can take less damage from it. this might be goated for Slams and other things that would normally kill you."
},
{
"body": "I believe it expands the damage reduction to the entire roll, intead of 100% avoiding stuff for the first .35 seconds of the roll. I would say the bigger advantage is that it would work on red attacks (Unblockable/Unavoidable) as well as AoE damage."
},
{
"body": "Wait, since when did dodge roll avoid damage? How does this work, cus like year ago I swore they said it didn't avoid damage, it was just a minor speed boost only at the first part of the roll",
"replies": [
{
"body": "you avoid all hits during the first portion of the roll",
"replies": [
{
"body": "not aoe effects."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "WoW\n\nLevitation seems absolutely insane",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Yes, I thought of something cool with the Chronomancer when I saw this.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Go on..."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "interesting to see the weapon swap speed node. I'm guessing your gonna need at least one node like this to have a build where you swap weapons often feel good"
},
{
"body": "How about you [give credit to where you took these from](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOQlMiDNpyQ)",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Alright, give him the credit. I just shared something I saw on Discord. I admit I didn't investigate the origin of the image.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "No worries! He's gonna be posting more videos as he said he got footage of almost the whole tree at the event a couple weeks ago, so would recommend keeping an eye over there",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I subscribed to the channel when you sent the link."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Block Builds are back?"
},
{
"body": "\"50% inncreased weapon swap speed\"\n\nwhat do you mean weapon swap speed ? !",
"replies": [
{
"body": "You have 2 weapon sets that you can switch between with X key (in poe1).\n\nIn poe2, you can limit a skill to one of the weapon sets, and you'll auto switch to that set when you use that skill. That's how you make best use of different types of skills - a staff for fire spells another staff for lightning spells, for example.\n\nThat switch takes a short time. I think they said at some point it's half a second or so.\n\nThis passive makes that time shorter.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "i know what weapon swap is... i just didn't know about the 0,5s time it takes in PoE 2, since in PoE 1 it's instant"
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "There are some potent nodes on that tree."
},
{
"body": "Apocalypse auto bomber could be fun"
},
{
"body": "Levitation looks buuuuusted"
},
{
"body": "Levitation is really cool! Sort of like a better version of Lethe Shade, which was already good. \n\nOverleech being weirdly accessible is interesting. Leech MUST be weaker overall.\n\nIncreased culling strike threshold is interesting too. White mobs culled from 37.5% hp?? Combined with the Witchhunter reverse cull and you'll be killing every pack in 1 hit."
},
{
"body": "Bulwark? Why would I want reduced damage took, when I can avoid all damage on a roll... feels like there is a mechanic that needs defined better to make this make sense \n \nSo Herald stacking is still a thing, wonder how that is going to work with Spirit\n\nSo Weapon Swapping isn't instant... so despite getting bonus points to use for using two different weapons... you'll be using those points to get Weapon Swap Speed upgrade/bonuses? that doesn't look good to me (as far as I know)\n\nInstead Culling Strike Threshold... so this is probably a Culling Strike does 5%... and you can scale it to 30%\n\nLay Siege is nice... one node to turn a defensive focus into more offense, I hope it's location makes sense\n\nLevitation is probably good, just to help you set up dodging",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Rolls don't have i-frames, you cannot avoid all damage, only \"basic hits\" and it's only at the start of the animation.\nBulwark bypasses that but you take less damage during the entire roll instead.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "so if you suck at rolling right, remove the brief Invul frames for a raw defense buff"
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "I feel like many of these nodes will not make it into full release."
},
{
"body": "Where do we expect to see the first (bare bones) passive tree calculator to test putting points into the tree?"
},
{
"body": "Damn, they're all good af."
},
{
"body": "Anyone seen animate guardian skill anywhere? I need my best friend"
},
{
"body": "Where do you find em ?"
},
{
"body": "I'm looking forward to play like to play Increased Culling Strike Threshold Stacker Build"
},
{
"body": "\"enemy ground effect\"\n\nOh Boi, on death effects are still a thing",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I mean, they definitely are, but that means a lot more then just on-death."
},
{
"body": "I'm sure they will be, but ground effects are more than just \"on-death\", so I'm not sure why that was your takeaway",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Mostly because ground effects in Poe 1 are just that aha",
"replies": [
{
"body": "They really aren't...\n\n\nThere are numerous non-on-death ground effects in this game. Vastly outnumbering the on-death effects. \n\n\nOnce you eventually get past the campaign and into mapping you'll see a bunch more."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "It's weird to me that people are in here making claims about certain abilities being OP or weak. We have absolutely no idea about the core mechanics of this game yet, guys. Abilities which would be OP in PoE1 might not be OP in PoE2 because of differences in cire game mechanics.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Which core mechanics don'twe know about?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "How would it even be possible to answer that question? We don't know what we don't know, thats how not knowing stuff works. Until we get our hands on the game is all just speculation and expectation.\n\n\nThis isn't PoE1, and I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed in this game because they are going in expecting it to be PoE1+ rather than the entirely new game that it is, with different mechanics and different systems. What's powerful in one will nit necessarily be powerful in another due to those differences.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Having seen dozens of hours of footage at this point, and dozens of hours of interviews.. we know a LOT. There would have to be somepretty significant changes that people have been conspiring to hide for somereason for me to think it's too early to start speculating. Of course some peoples speculations are based in more evidencethan others.\n\nDo you go through life assuming you can't make an informed decision on anything because \"you don't know what you don't know\"?\n\nAlso to head you off.. sometimes we do know what we don't know. For example we know that we don't know a lot of ascendancy passives for the currently revealed ascendancies. We know that we don't know all the possible mods that can roll on items. We know that we don't know all the boss mechanics etc.\n\nBut we do know for example how much % increased damage we can expect to get from an average notable passive. We do know how much ES we can get from an average notable passive. We know that it will be possible to get comparable or better ES on gear than in poe1, we knowthat int doesn't scale ES but it scales mana higher tha nbefore. We know a baseline for how much Int is possible toget in poe2. We therefore knwo a baseline for how much mana it is possible toget by stacking Int and ES gear with Eldfritch battery. We can then compare the % increased damage we would get from the notables that give % lightnign dmaage per int, and % spell dmaage per 100 mana and see that you can get a LOT more % damage from those notables than anything else currently. We also know base damage for spells. We also know how much you can get on top of that with archmage. We also know the vast mahjority of available support gems. We also know how much HP a lot of the bosses have thanks to the damage numbers i nthe videos. We don't know exactly how much reisstances bosses will have, but we can make an educated guess that it wont be over 100%. We don't know if they will have other mechanics that make them take less damage though.\n\nWe don't have POB, but we can still definitely theorycraft.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I suppose we'll see won't we? Im aware we do know stuff, what im saying is that we dont know everything, in fact i dont even believe we know the majority, but there wont be any way to know until the 6th. \n\n\nBut I predict a lot of people coming to this sub complaining about unexpected differences between PoE1 and 2, as well as differences between those interviews and other things we thought we knew and what the game actually ends up being. \n\n\nIf you'd like some examples of what I'm talking about here you go. We don't currently know the theoretical cap of hp, mana, es, or spirit yet so we have no point of reference to tell us if, say, +100 to any of those is a small or a large number. We have no idea how high of hp or resistances enemies and bosses will have, so we therefore have no idea if 100,000 damage is a lot or a little. We don't know how rapidly ground effects will deal damage, or how much damage they'll do, if what sorts of ground effects will be in the game besides those we've seen so we have no idea how useful being immune to ground effects will be. We have no idea how common stats or effects will be on items yet since we've only seen a few of them, so we don't know how rare or vital they will be yet. These are just some examples of things we can currently only speculate on, there are probably hundreds more.\n\n\nPoint is, there's nothing wrong with theorycrafting, my original comment was about people making claims that things were overpowered or underpowered without actually knowing how the game works yet. It's a bit like when people complain about casting choices in movies before even seeing the movie. Watch the movie, then complain. Play the game, then decide what's over or underpowered"
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Just to make sure he gets credit.. these come from a YTer called dreamcore. Hes got a few vids explaining mechanics in poe 2 as well as a new series on nodes on the tree. \n\nIts kinda helpful to know what you can go for beforehand"
},
{
"body": "Glancing Blows is interesting - does this mean regular block effect from poe1 continues to exist in addition to the active block mechanic? If it doesn't, then that node is just awful unless it is old (very possible) or has some beneath the hood effect, like doubles your active shield block threshold or whatever",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Regular block is still a thing yes, the active block is a skill that comes on tower shields (the armor base ones)"
},
{
"body": "Iirc old block still exists, active block is just a bonus but I'm not entirely sure and things can of course change. In any case having only active block would be quite weak for shields I think, especially given that dual wield seems very strong in poe2."
},
{
"body": "You kind gave me a thought. I wonder how active block would work with something like the Aegis Aurora or something similar."
}
]
},
{
"body": "so u just copypasted dreamcore video in here?"
}
]
}