Rufous

Path of Exile 2 Mechanics: Damage Conversion (Dreamcore) : r ...

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{
  "post": {
    "title": "Path of Exile 2 Mechanics: Damage Conversion (Dreamcore)",
    "selftext": "",
    "url": "https://youtu.be/uFJZiI80fq0?si=pLRJzFwLWU3MVOPx"
  },
  "comments": [
    {
      "body": ">Hrishi and viperesque have already previously confirmed PoE 2 has no enforced conversion order in the PoE discord\n\n- firewashere0",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": " [source btw](https://i.imgur.com/mFjrLuo.png)"
        },
        {
          "body": "So this entire video is bait? (I didn’t watch)",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "Video is saying the same. POE1 converted damage remembers it's origin type, in POE2 it wont."
            },
            {
              "body": "no, but the main point of \"increases to physical damage does not apply to physical damage that was 100% converted to fire\" could be said in a 5s video.\n\nbasically its last epoch damage rules. if a damage was x but is now y only increases to y apples to it.",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": ">if a damage was x but is now y only increases to y apples to it.\n\n\\thread",
                  "replies": [
                    {
                      "body": "y apples takes me back to algebra"
                    }
                  ]
                },
                {
                  "body": "It wasn't 5 seconds cos he explained how it works in PoE 1 first. Not everyone knows how everything in this game works under the hood off the top of their head. He has to explain how it works in PoE 1 first, or the change won't make sense."
                },
                {
                  "body": "Not sure how I feel about this"
                },
                {
                  "body": "Ah, thanks."
                }
              ]
            },
            {
              "body": "Wat?",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "The entire video, after skimming through explains how conversion works in PoE 1. The comment above explains that PoE 2 does not work the same way as PoE 1",
                  "replies": [
                    {
                      "body": "Okay so you *still* didn’t bother watching a 5 minute video. God damn it. No. He explains the mechanic in Poe 1 and then explains how it *changes* in Poe 2. That’s the point of the series. The comment above is simply adding extra information the creator of the video wasn’t aware of and said, in the video, “we don’t know yet if this is true or not”. So the comment just completes that by adding the missing information,"
                    },
                    {
                      "body": "No, he explains the change in PoE 2. Nothing about that comment contradicts him, apart from him saying towards the end that we don't know for sure if the same order will be followed in PoE 2. The change he does cover however still stands.\n\nAnd he has to explain how it works in PoE 1 first, or the change won't make sense."
                    }
                  ]
                }
              ]
            }
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "I feel these types of videos would be better placed when there is more concrete information to flesh them out.\n\nIn the previous video, it mentions a new lightning based ailment but no actual details of its mechanics.\n\nThese currently just feel like they are farming views because people are content starved for PoE2 content.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "[removed]",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "I mean yeah, his content is awful. It's definitely more clickbait than this.\n\nI feel this will be a good series when it's based on more info at release."
            },
            {
              "body": "Regarding your post to /r/pathofexile:\n\nhttps://old.reddit.com/r/PathOfExile2/comments/1ffaic0/-/lmu1tsm/\n\nThis post has been removed by a moderator for breaking the following /r/pathofexile subreddit rule:\n\nYour post was removed because it violated our Be Kind Rule (Rule 3b).\n\nAttacks, abuse, intentionally misinterpreting a comment/post's intention (strawman arguments), or provocations that seem likely to cause anger or are inflammatory make the subreddit harder to moderate, even if they don't target a specific person. While criticisms, complaints, and suggestions are always allowed, please remain civil to make the community a more enjoyable place.\n\nYou may be able to repost your opinion if you rephrase it in a way that's more constructive!\n\nIf you see someone else posting in bad faith, please don't respond in kind. Instead, report it and we'll take care of it.\n\nFor more details, please refer to our [rules wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/wiki/rules/#wiki_3b._be_kind_rule).\n\n\n\nPlease review the [subreddit rules for additional information](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/wiki/rules)."
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "They are."
        },
        {
          "body": "Well, I like it. I can't keep up with all the interviews, clips, events and news being spread out, so it's nice to see things condensed in a single place + compared vs PoE 1. I don't care much if it gets changed later or it's not 100% accurate, it's more than what o had before watching the video that's for sure."
        },
        {
          "body": "Given the state that D4 is currently in, a massive missed opportunity by GGG to capitalize."
        },
        {
          "body": "The new lightning based ailment is literally a stun.\n\nYou can see it doing its job in the Ranger's Walkthrough.\n\nExpecting a lot of details that goes past what the devs allowed us to see is kinda silly.\n\nEdit: I kinda wrote this harshly with no real reasoning, so take it with a grain of salt.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "The poster above you is not expecting dreamcore to have details beyond what the devs have shown. They are saying that without those details, there's not much point in making the video.",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "I'll admit I wrote that when I woke up so I'll give you the voice of clarity in this situation"
                }
              ]
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "no one cares what you feel. These guys are getting their bag. People are clicking their videos giving them views and money. What are you doing with your time?",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "Being a productive member of society.\n\nYou're kind of mentality makes me believe you defend con men and/or scammers"
            },
            {
              "body": "Woah, how did you managed to say all of that with their balls in your mouth?"
            }
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "Honestly it makes sense I think. Seemed like in POE1 it was always the correct choice to damage convert eventually because you just opened up more options for increasing damage. It's also just more straight forward mechanically rather than having this damage flow chart.\n\nHowever since they want people to use many different abilities, damage types, and weapons in POE2 (from the weapon swap stuff and extra nodes, and multiple skills and combo effects), I'm curious how they expect people to scale them. It's always going to feel bad to take a fire node if your other skills aren't fire, and when you really get into min/maxing it's always better to do one.\n\nLast Epoch did a great job making their stat and damage sources much more generic for mixing skills, but even then at the end of the day you were choosing spell/melee/minion damage + damage type and leaning into one skill with that with the rest being triggers or buffs pretty much.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "Weapon swap with its own passive points should help that. A while back, they showcased that you can assign skills to one of your sets, so if your skills are a mix of fire and cold, you can have a weapon specced for cold dmg and the weapon points in cold dmg used when you use the skill you tied it to, and a weapon specced for fire dmg and the weapon points in fire dmg used when you use the skills you tied it to.\n\nThat was a semi while ago, so it's probably changed slightly, but the idea will likely still be in early access.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "I'm just a little skeptical like 10 bonus skill points and a different weapon will make it good, when there is so much else you could be dedicating to a single damage type.\n\nHope they can nail it though, will have to see how it plays out.",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "it was very rare to take multiple ele damage wheels in the first place outside of leveling.\nAlso I don't believe x dealt as y is changed so there might be some shenaningans with support gems\n\nI wonder how many nodes will specialize on x damage type in the first place and how much of your % damage is from tree. \nWhat I wonder about is cluster jewel. If cluster jewels can be weapon swapped, it solves a lot of questions I have with multiple attributes"
                }
              ]
            }
          ]
        },
        {
          "body": "[deleted]",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "My point isn't that a lot of builds do it, it's that when it comes to min/maxing converting damage is basically always a +. It enables a lot of crazy mechanics shenanigans. It's also why it's not easy to do fully.\n\nAll I'm saying is that when they are trying to simplify things, I can see why this approach of conversion is more straightforward for both design, balance, and player readability. Converting your cold damage to fire, to use cold damage increases, isn't exactly intuitive."
            }
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "Related is that modifiers that add flat spell damage no longer exist. This is why damage effectiveness on spell skill gems is gone. Instead they have made all flat damage modifiers to be  \"Gain #% of damage as X\"."
    },
    {
      "body": "So if I understood this correctly\n\nIf you have 100 base physical damage, which is converted to every single step at a 100% rate (I know not possible in PoE1 right now, but just speaking hypothetically), phys->lightning->cold->fire->chaos, and then you have \"100% non-chaos damage added as extra chaos damage\", then you will essentially have 500 base chaos damage which can only be scaled by modifiers to chaos damage (and other damage types of the final hit, like projectile/area/melee or whatever)\n\nIs that correct? I find it very interesting that \"non-chaos added as chaos\" is essentially still a super powerful mechanic, but now only if you are scaling raw chaos damage.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "There is no longer an order of conversion in PoE2, Fire could be 100% cold, for example.\n\nSince % damage only works after conversion, I assume 100% non-chaos damage added as extra chaos damage will also only work AFTER conversion. That means if you have 100% non-chaos as extra chaos, and you deal 100 phys, 100 light, 100 cold and 100 fire damage, you'd get 400 as extra chaos damage.",
          "replies": [
            {
              "body": "> I assume 100% non-chaos damage added as extra chaos damage will also only work AFTER conversion. \n\nThe video directly contradicts this though. Did you watch it? Do you have an actual reason to believe it was wrong?",
              "replies": [
                {
                  "body": "Of course I did, but the man in the video assumed that the old conversion system was still present but was confirmed by GGG that it changed, as I mentioned in my comment. \n\nThat means since there is no order of conversion, it's fair to assume the \"non-chaos as extra chaos\" will not work like it does in PoE1. \n\nIt's funny that you ask questions, but seem to be sure of your assessment about a video that lacks information and is mostly based on assumptions.",
                  "replies": [
                    {
                      "body": "Why would he have asserted it as fact if he wasn't able to directly confirm it with GGG? It is you who is making me increasingly sure of my assessment in the video, and you're stating your own assumption that comes from literally nothing at all. My assumption comes from a content creator who has actually talked to GGG about Path of Exile 2. Until you have a real source, which is what I asked for, your argument is meaningless. I would be happy to be corrected with an actual source instead of some rando making shit up. There's no logical reason that \"no fixed conversion order\" would mean conversion chains don't still function with non-chaos added as chaos. In fact, it would possibly enable \"non-fire added as fire\" which would be just as powerful!",
                      "replies": [
                        {
                          "body": ">and you're stating your own assumption that comes from literally nothing at all\n\nIt's funny that you call me a \"rando making shit up\" but then referring to a video about a rando making shit up, yet calling me ignorant while using that exact video as a point of reference. **It's all assumptions, because we have no idea how it works, and if you knew how to read, you'd see that I said \"I ASSUME\" not \"I KNOW\"**. It's all based off **logic** with information that we've learned about the game.\n\nP.S :  [proof about the conversion order change](https://imgur.com/mFjrLuo) he got that wrong too.\n\nWhat we know so far :\n\n1. Conversion system does not have an order\n2. ANY % damage is only calculated after the conversion\n3. 100% phys converted to fire would mean no sources of phys % will add damage. This could mean that the phys damage in question is completely gone from the calculations.\n\nIt's POSSIBLE, with this info, that % non-chaos as extra chaos does not apply BEFORE conversion because other damage calculations aren't applied. That would mean \"damage as extra\" would not be consistent with these new calculations.\n\nPoE2 systems seem to be a lot more consistent to keep it simple to understand, I wouldn't be surprised if that's how it works with \"extra damage sources\"\n\nRemember, you don't have to agree, this is a discussion, nothing more. Also, it's not because someone made a video that they're right, as I already proved."
                        }
                      ]
                    }
                  ]
                }
              ]
            }
          ]
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "5 minutes of video to say that POE 2's damage conversion only scales on the converted type. That is, phys dmg converted to cold can only be scaled by scaling cold damage. vs POE 1 where you can scale both phys and cold.",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "Grim Dawn uses that system too. If you convert 100% from cold to lightning, scaling cold doesn't do anything anymore. Makes much more sense tbh, I'm glad"
        },
        {
          "body": "He's catering to all audiences, including newer players. He starts by explaining how it works currently. Without the explanation of how it works in PoE 1, the change in PoE 2 won't have any context. Even some older players don't know the ins and outs of damage conversion (let alone the mess that is leech!) cos they just play with builds made by content creators.\n\nAnd if 5 mins is too long, I think you're going to be in for a tough watch when it comes to leech changes lol!"
        },
        {
          "body": "i found it super helpful personally"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "body": "This sub has turned into an advertising channel for obscure no-name content creators who are trying to get a foot in the door before PoE2 launches with vague assertions about how things could work...\n\nLow quality view farming. Just go through his video history, he's just ripping off videos others made weeks before."
    },
    {
      "body": "Sadly, they removing in-depth mechanics, hope there will be more mechanics that u can build around",
      "replies": [
        {
          "body": "lol they literally left in the only \"in-depth\" part of this mechanic that ever existed, which is non-chaos added as chaos damage stacking at each stage, and just took out the part that made scaling too trivial"
        },
        {
          "body": "This is how conversion worked in poe1 initially. They changed it because all the conversion skills they introduced were weak because of it. Conversion chain didn't add any depth to the game."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}