{
"post": {
"title": "HELP: Operative Build optimization",
"selftext": "In our current Starfinder game, we're all a bunch of fraggin' support classes. \nWe've got me, the Operative, an Envoy, a Technomancer, and a Mystic. \nSo I've talked to our DM about some options, including re-specing as a Soldier/Solarian, or possibly changing my character a little to be more combat centered. \nWhat are some options for making the Operative better in combat? \nJust as an aside, I think one of the real downsides of the operative class as a whole is the fact you have a melee skill at level 1, but there are only maybe 3 melee weapons in the game that can use it, and you're a DEX character with a side of CHA, and you get not melee DEX bonuses.\n",
"url": "https://www.reddit.com/r/starfinder_rpg/comments/9z3tru/help_operative_build_optimization/"
},
"comments": [
{
"body": "So, my wife is playing a pretty badass Operative based partly on the Major from Ghost in the Shell.\n\nShe routinely:\n\n\\-trick attacks things I am flanking with a pike, using either pistol or melee as the situation merits (I also have Coordinated Shot to help her and the other ranged dealers)\n\n\\-uses Fleet/Jet Dash/Versatile Movement to literally jump on top of 2-story buildings, or run up smokestacks vertically\n\n\\-once there, deploys a bipod on a coilgun sniper rifle and starts raining sniper fire full-round (she took Weapon Focus: Sniper to help this)\n\n\\-if she's attacked or cornered in a sniper nest, she uses Uncanny Mobility to either trick attack it on her way out or just safely withdraw by wallrunning down. Drops the sniper rifle, swifts the concealed weapon out, uses the calling fusion on her sniper rifle while running vertically.\n\n\\-She can either mix it up in CQB, or very rapidly reposition around the map for sniper shots. She can \"stop-and-pop\" in a traditional cover vs cover firefight.\n\n​\n\nThe Operative is not a support class. It can be a show-stopper.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Wow, that sounds fun as hell. What are the rules that support that sort of thing? I ask because my group can be... sticklers for rules.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Nothing crazy, just a Daredevil Human Soldier dip Operative with STR as a secondary stat to beef up melee attacks.\n\nThe rest are a combination of feats and equipment."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "There's not really much you need to do to combat-optimize an Operative. \n\nSince you're using Operative Melee Weapons and Small Arms, you can swap freely between melee and ranged weapons - many Operatives carry one in each hand for flexibility. Both weapon types are comparable in damage output: they have similar base damage (at low levels), identical specialization scaling (+1/2 Lv), and both benefit from Trick Attack identically.\n\nThe only advantages that melee has over ranged are 1) +STR to damage (likely a small contribution) and 2) ability to threaten to make AoOs (which, if you're wielding both typesof weapons, you can do anyway).\n\nSo what options are there for combat optimization?\n\n* Offensive: The Weapon Focus feat gives you +2 Accuracy at level 9. Take it by then if you haven't already.\n* Offense: Deadly Aim scales really well with multiple attacks - combining that iwht the reduced multiple attack penalty on the Operative's Triple and Quad Attack is a high power combo at higher levels.\n* Offense: The Starfinder Armory released a number of new Operative weapons, including Advanced Melee Weapons with the Operative special quality. They still have the reduced weapon specialization damage, but have much better base damage dice than the basic melee weapons. You can take Weapon Proficiency (Advanced Melee Weapons) and Versatile Specialization to use them effectively.\n* Offense: If you're a race that grants a special weapon specialization in a natural attack (such as Vesk), you can take the [Pistol Whip](http://www.aonsrd.com/OpExploits.aspx?ItemName=Pistol%20Whip) exploit to be able to make a special attack that counts as an operative melee weapon (works with Trick Attack and Triple/Quad Attack), but maintains the improved scaling (+Lv instead of +1/2 Lv).\n* Defense: Enhanced Resistance is an effective tool that dramatically reduces damage taken. Operatives that tango in Melee will find great benefit from taking DR/-, whereas Ranged Operatives might prefer Fire Resistance to soften the blows from the (generally) common Laser weapons.\n* Defense: Shot on the Run/Spring Attack let you make an attack and then back off away from the target. Against a Melee Enemy, this means forcing them to spend a move action to get in reach of you (preventing them from taking a full attack). Against a Ranged Enemy, this could mean hopping out of cover, taking a shot, and getting behind cover again.\n* Teamwork: other feats like Bodyguard, or Coordinated Shot can help increase your combat prowess by helping you help your enemies.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Deadly Aim + proper level Polarity Gauntlets + Quad Attack = Red Assed Beatdown"
},
{
"body": "How does Weapon Focus give you +2 at level 9? I'm don't see that in the CRB.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "You ca check the full text at the [Archives of Nethys](https://www.aonsrd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Weapon%20Focus)\n\n> *Benefit*: Chose one weapon type (small arms, longarms, heavy weapons, etc.). You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with that weapon type. **If your base attack bonus is at least 3 lower than your character level (or your mechanic’s class level, if you are a drone), you gain a +2 bonus instead.**\n\nOnce you hit level 9, you've lost 3 BAB due to the operative's 3/4 BAB progression (+0 BAB at levels 1, 5, and 9), so it's a +2 to hit."
},
{
"body": "> If your base attack bonus is at least 3 lower than your character level (or your mechanic’s class level, if you are a drone), you gain a +2 bonus instead.\n\nAt 9th level 3/4 BAB classes have a +6 BAB and this kicks in. "
}
]
},
{
"body": "> Offense: Deadly Aim scales really well with multiple attacks - combining that with the reduced multiple attack penalty on the Operative's Triple and Quad Attack is a high power combo at higher levels.\n\nWhat reduced attack penalty? Triple and Quad attack only add extra attacks from what i see. If you are using Deadly Aim that would be a -6 to all of your attacks during a full attack.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Sorry, the implication was that it's reduced compared to every other option in the game for additional attacks on a full attack. All other classes that get more than two attacks on a full attack action take an additional penalty: \n\n* Soldiers onslaught is 3 attacks at a -6 instead of 2 at a -4.\n\n* Solarian's Onslaught is 3 attacks at a -6 instead of 2 at a -4. (reduced by 1 with Flashing Strikes if melee) \n\n* Operatives get 3 attacks at a -4 instead of 2 attacks at a -4, and then 4 attacks at a -4 instead of 2 attacks at a -4.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Gotcha. Thanks for the reply. Was worried i had been playing something drastically wrong!"
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Linked it in another comment but [here are all the melee weapons](https://thehiddentruth.info/player/equipment/weapons/melee.php), there are currently 70 melee weapons with the operative quality. Also as no one seems to have mentioned it yet, you use your dexterity to attack with operative melee weapons.\n\n\n\n\n\nThat said, unless being melee is really a part of your character, you're better off sticking to small arms for trick attack.\n\n\n\nIn all the games I've played in the operative is always the main damage dealer, at a certain level you just automatically pass your trick attack check and to be fair, you really only fail on an incredibly low roll before that level."
},
{
"body": "The operative is pretty good at close quarter fighting if you play to its skills. Pistol and op weapon can be deadly.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Okay, could you expand on that a bit more?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "The Operative in the group I GM uses a Sniper Rifle and Pistols to great effect. He'll start combat with the long arm but as enemies close he uses Trick Attack with pistols which deals additional damage and leaves the target flatfooted. Flatfooted is a nice debuff with -2 to AC and no reactions. Quick Movement gives you the ability to really move around the battlefield effectively and use pistols or melee. At level 4, you can choose to make the Trick Attack apply off target instead of flatfoot so they can't hit your teammates as easily plus exploits can give you some interesting trick attack choices. With a high dex, you can be reasonably tanky for a non tank class so you can take some hits. Evasion and Uncanny Agility buff this allowing you to avoid more damage. Exploits can buff any of this in a lot of interesting ways.\n\n​\n\nTLDR Operative is not support. It can be a powerful DPS class in the vein of a Rogue in Pathfinder.\n\n​\n\nAlso, the Operative weapon list has expanded with the Starfinder Armor book.\n\n[https://thehiddentruth.info/player/equipment/weapons/melee.php](https://thehiddentruth.info/player/equipment/weapons/melee.php)\n\nSo if you are thematically tied to melee, you have other options to work this with long arms and melee."
},
{
"body": "If you're coming in at level 1, Second Skin, Azimuth Laser, Survival Knife is a pretty good start.\n\nWhen you get some cash (or if your DM is generous at the start) look to upgrade that Azimuth Laser to something like the Static Arc Pistol - great pistol for the money.\n\nFor a sniper rifle, you're hard pressed to find a better value early on than the [Diasporan Rifle](https://thehiddentruth.info/player/equipment/weapons/range.php?page=Diasporanrifletactical) from Alien Archive 1.\n\nFor melee weapons, I really really like the [Gale Baton](https://thehiddentruth.info/player/equipment/weapons/melee.php?page=Galebatontempest) from the Armory. It \\*is\\* Advanced Melee so you need either Adv. Melee Proficiency into Versatile Specialization feats - or a 1-soldier dip for the proficiencies, followed by the Versatile Spec feat later. \n\n\nEvery operative probably wants a [Quick-Release Sheath](https://thehiddentruth.info/player/equipment/armor/upgrades.php?page=Quick-releasesheath) early on - but eventually about 6100 credits can get you a pair of [quickdraw Hideaway Limbs](https://thehiddentruth.info/player/equipment/augmentations/cybernetics.php?page=HideawaylimbQuickdraw) so you can be prepared to go full John Woo at all times in nearly every social situation. Of course, you could just take the [Quickdraw](https://thehiddentruth.info/player/feats/?page=QuickDraw) feat if the cash is more valuable to you."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Guys, apologies for barging in on a thread inactive for 2 months but... Small Arms + Melee Weapon is exactly the concept I would like to go with for my Operative, but I have no idea where to begin. \n\nWould anyone be able to give me some pointers (have only played a premade Vesk soldier in Starfinder, and now am going to join a game at level 2 :D) for where to start looking?\n\n​\n\nThank you in advance for any possible assistance!\n\n​",
"replies": [
{
"body": "There's some good equipment advice upthread.\n\nPistol in one hand, melee weapon in the other is a pretty standard Operative loadout. Their proficiencies include Sniper Weapons so they can fill that role as needed."
}
]
},
{
"body": "The operative in my game is pretty powerful in combat. In his build the damage mostly comes from trick attack with pistols, but I'm sure melee would be good as well. Dex should probably be your highest stat as it allows you to attack in melee and ranged (remember: melee weapons with the operative quality get to use the DEX modifier to attack instead of STR). DEX also buffs your AC and initiative which is great. Then, you want to focus your skills on one that your specialization uses trick attack for. If you focus on one of these skills, I think you should get a trick attack off at least 80% of the time. Don't forget, your trick attack is attacking your opponents flat footed AC and you can apply debuffs with debilitating trick. So while you will never get a huge flat bonus to your damage like the STR soldier of STR Solarian, your attacks should hit pretty frequently and you should be rolling a lot of dice with your trick attacks. I don't think this is too far behind in single target damage on average. I hope that helps? ",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Oh F*** me, trick attack uses any small arm?! \nWell this changes everything.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "LOL... go forth and mow down some baddies.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I think I just heard their sidearm powering up."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "I hope this isn't a \"stupid question\" but where can I find more info on what weapons are considered \"operative quality\"? How is that defined? Is it any weapon that I'm proficient in?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It's any weapon that says it has the operative quality. Like some weapons have the reach quality, or the unwieldy quality.\n\n\n[Here's all the melee weapons so far](https://thehiddentruth.info/player/equipment/weapons/melee.php) and a quick 'control + f : operative' shows that there are 70 weapons with the operative quality."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "I will suggest, depending on your GM, you will have a lot more fun playing your character if you just think of the character, and what that character would choose to do, as opposed to optimising. \n\nIf that fails though, a multi-armed race with the Daredevil operative path is epic in combat. Make sure you take multi arm fighting and drum those trick attacks, while dancing and tumbling through the crowd."
},
{
"body": "The Dead Suns group I am DMing doesn't have any operatives, but the NPC operatives they have run into absolutely wrecked them. Triple attack is no joke, neither is Trick Attack with handfuls of dice."
}
]
}