{
"post": {
"title": "What is the difference between Core Gameplay Loop and Core Gameplay Mechanics ?",
"selftext": "I was working on my University project and suddenly I got confused with this question. Let me know what are your thoughts on it. Because somewhere I feel like they both are vaguely connected.",
"url": "https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedesign/comments/15c5smh/what_is_the_difference_between_core_gameplay_loop/"
},
"comments": [
{
"body": "Short version: Loops are made of mechanics.\n\nSlightly longer - \"Mechanics\" refers to \"how it works\" - game math, player interactions with world / objects, etc. \"Game loop\" is \"what the player does to play\" so \"Fight monster, get drop, trade drop for power, fight bigger monster\" is a loop, \"how to determine hit or miss, or how to calculate damage, or what drop rates are, etc.\" are mechanics.\n\nEdit: A good hint is the phrase \"rinse and repeat\" - this is usually used when describing a game loop.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Thank you so much for taking the time to explain. It really helps me a lot."
},
{
"body": "\"Game Loop\" is a relatively new concept in game design, compared to \"game mechanics\" and, from my point of view, more relevant to describe mobile F2P games than to \"traditional\" games. \n\n\nThe \"loop\" is what the player does each time she plays a session. \n\nSomething like:\n\n* Clash of Clans: attack other players - collect rewards - improve the base\n* Clash Royale: PVP combat - get rewards - improve units\n* Candy Crash: play a level - get rewards \n\n\nIt's a loop, because when you get to the last step, then you move back to the first one. An each next step is \"tempting\" the player to keep playing (which is something very important in F2P, as your compete with many other free games). The player runs the loop several times, and as she runs the loop, she progresses.\n\nI don't find this loop model really useful for premium games, but you can also use it. For some genres or games (i.e. Limbo, Super Mario Bross, Zelda...) I find too artificial to apply this.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Super Mario: enter new world area, perform level, return to overworld, perform level, repeat this sub-loop until a boss fight is reached, fight boss, move into next world area....\n\nZelda: enter new area, find way into dungeon, complete puzzles to pass through dungeon, fight boss, find way to next area, repeat until final dungeon and final boss fight\n\nMonopoly: roll dice, move, buy tile or pay rent, pass turn\n\nTic-tac-to: mark square, pass turn\n\nIt's just as relevant for \"traditional\" games as for modern games. Moblie F2P has the low variation between loops, but Just because it's not as repetitive doesn't mean old games aren't also looped concepts.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "This is exactly what I mean by relevancy. \n\nWhen designing a F2P game, the designers aspire to generate a \"tight\" loop, so the player, as soon as the start playing the game, are always moving from one goal to the next, and then are impelled to play the game several times per day (average of 3 sessions per day is kind of standard) , every day. \n\nThis is why you have timers, energy refills, time limited events, etc.\n\nAlso, often, F2P games cannot be \"completed\". You need to design a loop that can be expanded and scaled as much as you need, and that alway keeps the player motivated.\n\nYour game will be as good/profitable as your Game Loop. You discuss A LOT about the game loop when you are creating a F2P game.\n\nIn most of non F2P games (or games without a Games As Service approach) the approach is different (also, because players have already paid, and you don't need to \"trap\" them in a loop). You have other discussions.\n\nIn my experience, in F2P:\n\n\\- 20% of the design effort are core mechanics, and 80% is game loop.\n\nIn premium games,:\n\n\\- 80% of the design effort are core mechanics, and 20% is game loop.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "But the concept of the loop is still highly relevant to describe a lot of newer games. Loops are a good way to visualize the kinds of actions players take over the course of the game and tie them to progression pacing. Even if mobile/F2P games are \"more loop,\" analyzing any game with an eye for its gameplay loops will give you invaluable information about the design"
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Mechanics: What the player is doing.\n\nLoop: Why the player is doing it.\n\nSoccer: Mechanics are all about physics and ball control. The loop is an hour long session with two teams trying to put the ball in to the net.\n\nChess: Mechanics are the movement of pieces and how they interact. The loop is a single game trying to use those pieces to capture a specific piece.\n\nFPS games: Mechanics are pointing and clicking on things with precision and the effects caused by shooting. The loop is dropping into a team deathmatch and getting more kills than your opponents.\n\nThey are inherently connected and both are required for a game. If you only have mechanics, you only have at toy. It can be played with but there is no loop to give it a greater purpose. If you only have a loop then you only have a purpose, but there is no fun mechanics to play with.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "The loop isn't as much why, but the progression the mechanics follow. Like the grouping of phases.\n\nSoccers loop is a very general getting control->scoring. It's mechanics are passing, dribbling, shooting etc.\n\nAmerican football has a a very ordered loop of set the play, execute play. Within the major loops of defensive and offensive play with the goal of minimizing or maximizing movement of the ball.\n\n\nChess's gameplay loop is taking turns moving pieces.\n\nMinecraft's gam eplay loop is explore->harvest->craft->explore->etc. With each step of said loop feeding into each other.\n\nA FPS death match doesn't have a big gameplay loop, but fortnight had distinct phases of landing scramble, mid game and end ring. CS GO and Valorant have distinct offensive/defensive phases.\n\nVampire survivors gameplay loop is Kill enemies, gather gems to upgrade, kill enemies.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Sounds like we are talking about the same thing to me",
"replies": [
{
"body": "You are right. I felt like 👍 was clarifying but I didn't really add much in hindsight.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I felt like you properly explained it like an actual loop, which game loops are. Not to talk shit about /u/Jorlaxx, but they explained it less in-depth, so the difference between mechanica and loops are not as clear imo. You both explained well, but I liked the part where the loops actually looped.\n\nEDIT: to put it in other terms: Jorlaxx did talk abuut the loops (and it can be clear to most people, probably), but it's still mentioned a bit like a black-box kind of concept"
}
]
},
{
"body": "No you aren't. A loop does not explain why, as the reasons could be much more than mechanics of progression."
},
{
"body": "Yeah, I think this is more a layman vs. jargon thing."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "This is Gold bro! Loved the way you explained. Hats off! Thank you so much!!",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Peace and love brother!"
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "I suggest you read advanced game design \n\nhttps://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Game-Design-Systems-Approach/dp/0134667603/ref=nodl_?dplnkId=ffa2cbde-e8c8-43fa-8990-7ce9baa69def\n\nIt goes super deep into your question \n\nIn short, though, mechanics vs loop is like scenes vs movie \n\nA loop is made up of mechanics. I simple example:\n\nSuper Mario bros consists of a couple of mechanics: jumping, running, walking, stepping on enemies, bumping bricks, eating mushrooms and enlarging, eating flowers, throw fireballs, etc.\n\nThese are all mechanics. \n\nThe loop of super Mario bros, is to go from left to right on a level, not dying, and reaching the castle, within time limit. \n\nHence, mechanics are what the player does, and loops is how the game designer strings the mechanics together to create fun."
},
{
"body": "Mechanics are the nuts and bolts of the game, discrete parts of the game the player can do, interact with or influence. \n\nCore Gameplay Mechanics would be primary/key mechanics that are in service to the Core Gameplay Loop.\n\nLoops as the name suggest is a repeating series of actions or recurring goals the players wants to do or achieve. Loops can be at different levels/timeframes. A game could have one or many loops. Short timeframe loops typically feed into longer term loops.\n\nCore Gameplay Loops are simply the key defining loops of the game, the main reason people play. You might have other loops that are less important or aren't core to the game, eg side quests you can skip. If you could delete a loop from a game and the other game loops remain largely intact, then that loop is probably not core to the game (though it may still be of high value to players)\n\neg: The immediate action loop might be shooting waves of aliens every 5 minutes. The longer term loop might be gathering resources to build a rocket, fueling it and escaping the hostile planet which takes a hour or two. The inner alien killing loop serves the outer rocket escape loop as killing aliens drops resources and allows the player to explore new areas for resources"
},
{
"body": "Core Gamaplay mechanics are what you use to make the core gampelay loop? mechanics are what you can do, the loop is what you do it in? I guess?"
},
{
"body": "Loops aren't as universal a framework as they've been made out to be.\n\nIf you try to analyze, say, chess, from the perspective of \"what's the game loop\" you will fail.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "But you'll not? \nAnalyze the field -> make the move -> wait for opponent's move -> repeat",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Do you think that's a description that remotely captures how chess works or how it feels to play? All you've said is that it's a game where players take turn making moves. If that's the case, then it is the same \"core gameplay loop\" as checkers, Fire Emblem, or Terra Mystica, yet it is an entirely different game on a fundamental level to all of those.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Core loop is the same, move rules are different",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Right, so if two vastly different games can have the same \"core loop\", it stands to reason that the \"core loop\" is not a great universal framework to understand game design by, correct? Because otherwise it seems to imply that all turn-based games are fundamentally identical.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "No one said it's a sort of a \"framework\", idk",
"replies": [
{
"body": "There is a _lot_ of game design literature out there which analyses everything through the lens of the \"core gameplay loop.\" It is absolutely a game design framework.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It makes all the sense to analyze game loops, sure. Tho not sure what do you mean by a \"framework\" in that context.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "\"Framework\" is the core set of assumption and tools you use to understand something.\n\nI fail to see how the tool/framework/lens of \"core gameplay loops\" helps us understand chess.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Then gameplay loops are definitely a part of the game design \"framework\", tho not the framework by themselves"
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "And, yeah, fundamentally chess and checkers have the same core loop, and the \"only\" differences are the set of characters (figures) and the move rules, well, and the win conditions."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Saving to read later"
},
{
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}
]
}