{
"post": {
"title": "comparing d4 skill tree + paragon board vs poe skill tree",
"selftext": "​\n\n[Its nice right lots of options for every class its not like everyone chooses the exact same 90% path for the build they want right? its not like 95% of people always chose life\\/es and armour\\/block\\/evasion\\/suppression nodes, right? it's not like most of the tree is boring generic stat increase and damage multipliers and defence multipliers, right??? its not like 99% of people run 4-7 auras on their build right? its not like 99% of builds have at least 1 hex right??? You guys dont see the hypocrisy in you calling poe a better build variety game, right when 99% of builds are the same. Choose a skill get 4 auras, get 1 hex, get use when flask is full prefix on flasks, get life\\/es and armour\\/evasion\\/block\\/suppression for defence, get all damage multiplies on the tree for your 1 skill and there you go. yes, there are like 1% of players that do crazy weird builds, the minority don't excluded the overwhelmingly majority of players. Also I challenge anyone to make a build in poe that has 0 auras 0 hexs and 2 MAIN skills to do damage and dont choose any life or es nodes on the skill tree.](https://preview.redd.it/udcndn3ipvza1.jpg?width=5240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f33ea397e27350ef1ad2bee09910579cea6f2fb4)\n\n[Literally so big I had to copy and crop all this shit to fit onto 1 image but \\\\\"Diablo 4 has no build Verity\\\\\" right? + I'm not even including the glyphs you get to put into the tree. Or I love this arguement \\\\\"you are shoe horned into a build they made\\\\\" POE IS EXACTLY THE SAME THE DEVS MAKE SKILLS AND THEY MAKE BUILDS FOR YOU THEY \\\\\"MAKE\\\\\" the game. It is so brain-dead of a thing to say ICANT.](https://preview.redd.it/hjbudcuopvza1.png?width=1818&format=png&auto=webp&s=27a97f9d990496a949b0665cf18cdecbfa8c0773)\n\nPeople are forgetting each class has 9 different paragon board tress EACH and a 1 different skill tree EACH if you put together just the skill trees of each class into a 1 massive skill tree you would have just as many options as POE and thats JUST THE SKILL TREE OF DIABLO 4 not even including the paragon boards just because it's separated by class doesn't take away from the options you have, people have such a stupid 10iq takes when it comes to this \"Diablo 4 is so shit it has 0 customisation\". Fully prepared to get downvoted into oblivion by poe MALD frogs mad that diablo 4 has way more options if you think about it more then 10 seconds in your tiny brain-dead heads.",
"url": "https://www.reddit.com/r/quin69/comments/13hqxub/comparing_d4_skill_tree_paragon_board_vs_poe/"
},
"comments": [
{
"body": "after reading approximately 70% of comments in this thread, i'd like to state that you, OP, must lay off the fucking pipe.\nThe amount of blind faith you have in a videogame is literally fanatical.\nGet a life, touch boobs, grass, whtatever the fuck.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I have a job, i got a woman, I have 2 kids, i have a house, a nice jeep, i play with my kids 2 hours each day, i got to gym, i go to every single important things in my families lives, I got to dinner parties and i have my mates over for BBQ's...\n\nWTF have you done in your mothers and father's basement?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "cool, u didnt mention that u have grass to touch, now go"
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "You sound so butthurt makes sense you watch quinlmfao",
"replies": [
{
"body": "You immediately go to being burthurt ROFL, not \"hey that's a good point you know what your right\" your poeness is leaking out of your GGG cum stained shorts.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It’s okay to enjoy both games lol",
"replies": [
{
"body": ""
},
{
"body": "Yea do you think diablo 4 will need 4 years of development time to be good like poe needed when it released in 2013 to shitty reviews?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "You sound like a straight hater lol. And it’s not fair to compare either games. Poe was the first game GGG made. D4 is literally a blizzard game. They’ve made wc1-3, wow, all of wows expansions d1-4, hots which is dead, StarCraft 1-2 and plenty of other games. Hearthstone, the last few cods.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "\" It was developed under the radar for three years before being publicly announced on 1 September 2010.\"\n\nSo they started developing POE in 2007 September, so they have had almost 16 years to work on this game, 16 YEARS.\n\nAnd it is fair to compare the games they both share audiences.\n\nYes I get that blizzard is a much larger company but GGG isn't small any more It's pretty big and the fact that they got Tencent financial backing from May 2018 mean they have more resources than blizzard and more money than ever to spend on developing their games. Yes Tencent is way bigger than blizzard btw.\n\nBut you still didn't answer my question will it take Diablo 4 in your opinion 4 YEARS to get good like it took POE?\n\nOr will it be pretty good out of the gate?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "> any more \n\nyou kind of answered your own thing right? GGG must be the biggest now its ever been, i remember some oldass interview with CW about how they were finally even renting an officespace\n\n> mean they have more resources than blizzard\n\nthis is just wrong, just because 10c funds some of it cant be compared to a $20 billion company's flagship game for 2023\n\ni like both games a lot as i just started playing ARPGS but i know a lot of quins viewers hate d4, its funny how he absolutely sucks at poe and even will choose d4 s1 launch over exilecon thats literally on his island lmao... \n\nalso as for your OP about trees, i dont get the hate on paragon boards being +5 stats when a lot of PoE tree is also +10 int and shit. but again both games are really cool and im glad d4 is much slower so they feel completely different imo",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I wasn't shitting on d4 tree at all, I was saying it has more options than POE just tree vs tree. I love d4, I love POE, i just cant stand the brain-dead takes like \"d4 has 0 build complexity\" when most streamers don't even look if they are res capped or how much DR they get from armour or how much life they get from gear or anything like that all they look at is the legendary power.\n\nFurthermore, I have a sneaky suspicion that when d4 comes out we are going to see a massive death montage on the exact people that complain that the game is too easy or that it has 0 build complexity."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "This is a false comparison. \nD3, like poe, was developed in 2013. \nD4 is an evolution of D3, just like the current poe is an evolution of a poe released in 2013. \nJust because diablo 3 didn't improve all these years, didn't get new ideas that could be transferred to d4 - doesn't mean that \"d4 is a new game that needs time to grow\".",
"replies": [
{
"body": "15 May 2012 was when d3 released a full year and 5 months before poe.\n\nD4 isn't a evolution of d3 d4 is trying something completely new and interesting in the arpg market.\n\nPoe 2 is more of an evolution to POE then d3 is to d4. Hell i think they even said its more like a \"mega expansion to the original POE game\" then a new game, kinda like overwatch 2 is more of an evolution to overwatch then a brand new overwatch game.\n\nD3 didn't improve all these year because after ROS most of the dev team went to d4 and it was left with a skeleton crew just to do the bare minimum.\n\nThey never said they were going to do major huge meaty updates to d3 they did say they would in d4 you are making a false equivalency."
}
]
},
{
"body": "Damn you mad looser lolw"
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Holy shit this is some next level coping, just embrace that D4 is meant for casuals.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "And just embrace the poe is meant for people that don't have a life or jobs and can sit on their arse for 12 hours a day."
}
]
},
{
"body": "No retard, there is a difference between having an option to do something different to not having an option at all like in d4. Turn off quin it helps",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Brain-dead takes after brain-dead takes, did you even go to school?"
}
]
},
{
"body": "Anyone buying Blizzard games in 2023 is braindead. Imagine being stupid enough to pay full price for a game and then pay for a battle pass every season and then get dogshit p2w and garish microtransactions shoved down your throat in some algorithmically degenerate shop and then make cope posts like this defending the game in any capacity.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I am screen capping this so i can come back on here and rub it in your face when d4 turns out to be the most popular arpg in 6 months time cya bozo.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "this is the sad truth, doesnt mean its a good thing"
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "It doesn’t matter if the game is trash to begin with",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Found the first POE frog.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Found the Blizzard VEGAN",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Found another cum guzzler."
}
]
},
{
"body": "Found the dog tamer",
"replies": [
{
"body": "What's it like to eat arse IDK I've never done, but it seems like you do it hourly so how does it taste?",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Damn you talk like a donkey that’s for sure, chur bro",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I might talk like one, but you get fucked by one every day, what can you do man. I feel for you.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "A reply fit for a 12yr old learning new words, good for you lil bro",
"replies": [
{
"body": "The good old 12-year-old joke its not like its been used since 2003 in Xbox halo multiplayer but you know cant move on from the past can you not many people can think of new things shame i was hopeful I would get a laugh. I'm just disappointed in you."
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "the problem is you can't stitch D4 skill tree together and call it \"massive\" because you can't cross class. \"it's separated by class doesn't take away from the options you have\" if you necro you cannot spec into mage ???? what a fucking dump argument. that massive disservice lol\n\nyou say people run 4 aura but not mention people can choose which aura to run is like I say people in diablo4 only use same 4-6 skill because they have 4-6 button to put skill. you see how dump take this is?\n\nand imagine challenge people to make build and without any life or es nodes lol. what a stupid challenge? do you really not see how stupid this are? \nbut here the build; you play hierophant you stack mana+ward+Olroth's Resolve without spec into life/es you will have around 1.5-2k life+2k ward(not broken) with massive MOM mana pool (this should have around 6k phy max hit+20k Ele max hit). play any crit lighting spells+orb of storms+archmage, main skill have around 5mDps+orb of storm 1-2mDps ish (no hp no es no aura no hex) here BOZO.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Even if you cant cross it i wasnt pointing out how big it is joined i was pointing out how many fucking nodes there are its something like 6-7k + thats way more then poe.\n\neven if you just take 1 clases paragon board and count how many passives there are i can tell you its almost as much as poe skill tree.\n\nno i was calling out how stale the poe meta was when it comes to auras and everyone just going the same shit every league. And that 99% of people that play that skill generally have all the same gear and passives, I'm calling out the hypocrisy. \n\nYou just proved my point when it comes to the challenge, the top 5% of people think like you the rest of 95% of people dont give a shit about any of that in POE."
}
]
},
{
"body": "Try not to take what other ppl say so seriously. The whole channel is people memeing on eachother and quin. Its ok to like both games",
"replies": [
{
"body": "This post is mostly for quin actually, not chat XD. Chat is funny, quin genuinely thinks that there is way less build variety than POE while I agree with that sentiment for ITEMS for the actual skill tree and paragon tree he is WAY off. \n\nIf kripp thinks it's as good as POE, and he loves POE, then why can't other people realise the similarity."
}
]
},
{
"body": "Keep sucking the blizz dick bro.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "[removed]",
"replies": [
{
"body": "This guy has 2 kids a wife a house a jeep and blablabla and this is how he talks, sounds more like a angry teen.... Jesus this is cringe",
"replies": [
{
"body": "you sound jelly, and its called being a normal person displaying pride in his life."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Did you just write all this to compare the D4 skilltree to the PoE one and completly forgot that most of what is in the D4 skilltree is done by the 24 sockets in your gear in PoE and not the skilltree? It would be more correct to compare the paragon boards to the PoE skilltree."
},
{
"body": "Similar to what u have said about POE can be said about D4, as big as all of this seem, 90% of people will run the same shit, it’s called meta\n\nIt doesn’t matte what options are there, meta is meta and u will always find 90% of people copy pasting each others build \n\nHowever, POE does it better for the rest of 10% to make their own creative build, which I don’t think D4 can offer"
},
{
"body": "Now your just comparing node count. Wich is kinda stupid?\nThe paragon board means literally nothing in terms of variety since its just a statstick. It is not altering the build you play in the slightest.\nYour actual build comes from your skilltwig. So theres your variety burned down to 4-5 builds/ character. - wich is still ok btw its just presented in an awful way.\n\nAlso if you wanna do your comparison like this.\nAdd clusters and all the legion jewel nodes in. Since you deem +5 mainstat build defining. The 400 +4 devotion nodes need to be represented aswell.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "6000+ nodes on the paragon and yes while maybe 5000 of the nodes are stats the other 1000+ are build defineing + you need to think about what stats you want to get do i want more dex on my sorc for this node over here to get the bonus etc, + you have the glyph system that i havent even talked about so if you want we can.\n\nAlso thats a stupid argument most nodes on poes tree are uninspiring aswell like +20% damage here and there + 5% life here and there + 10 stat nodes everywhere +30 stats here and there + 10% spell suppression here and there + 10% bow/axe/2handed weapons damage like what \"variety\" are you seeing?\n\njust because poe HIDES thier stats, mutlipliers, +damage% better then diablo does doesnt make it better. Poe is worded better thats it, +1 to minion skill gems is just more damage +2 to bow skill gems is just more damage +1 to auras is just more tank or damage think for more then 10 seconds with your brain please.\n\nEverything in poe and in any arpg is mutliplies and additive damage and defence increases.\n\nLike uhh +1 arrows shot with bow that is literally just more damage people like you really just dont understand this simple shit.\n\nPoe is just worded way way better. It gives the illusion of choice, that's basically it.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Let me dismantle ur rant with 1 simple task.\nTake all the paragonboards you have. \n- Show me 100 build concepts. No not 100 fireballs wich have diffrent hp. Actually diffrent builds. If theres stuff like actual statsticking your obv allowed to use that since its a diffrent approach.\nWith so much variety offered by ur boards that should be an easy task.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "It's like you completely glossed over the fact that POE doesn't really have interesting stats, it just has well worded damage increases and damage reduction increases and sometimes cool utility.\n\nI can't show you any builds right now because the games isn't fully out yet, all I was pointing out is the hypocrisy of your messages.\n\nAlso let me tell you this, just because there are 1000 different SRS minion builds or whatever doesn't mean shit if all the minion builds are literally using 95% of the same gear passives ascendancy etc.\n\nI would say if you took 1000 different toxic rain builds 99% of them would be using the exact same passives the almost exact same gear the exact same type of cluster jewels, etc. With minor differences here and there."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Ignorance is bliss. \nAverage individual of Blizzard's target audience. Keep doing you lil mans"
},
{
"body": "90% of the nodes are like +5 mainstat and if i remember correctly from the leaks there are 4 nodes for each class that can alter your gameplay or lean into an archetype. Thats not variety, its just checking your grocery list of things the devs planned for you. Your creativity is irrelevant"
},
{
"body": "Nope, you can build the same skill with different passive nodes in PoE. And ppl do that. They vary it depending on SSF/trade, HC/SC, available gear, available jewels, lvl of the character. \n\nThere is also plenty 0hp builds in softcore.\n\nPoE does have a big amount of shitty passives and skills though. So the game is effectively smaller than it looks.\n\nI will not comment on D4 since I have not played it in endgame yet.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "My you don't seem to understand my point at all, i don't care if 5% of the population is doing weird stuff 95% of the population does the exact same build the exact same gear the exact same ascendancy the exact same god powers, so you don't know, actually.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Made up wrong statistics.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "you sound American, you gonna say trump actually won the the 2020 election aswell LOL"
}
]
},
{
"body": "So both D4 and PoE will have a very well defined meta (which you know, even a game with 1 million choices would have, that's just how it is in games). So looking at what 95% of the playerbase does is irrelevant, since it's the same, they play the most optimized stuff, no matter the game. Now for the other 5%, which is talking about build viability, which would be hard to argue that D4 does anything for that compared to PoE."
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Copium overdose"
},
{
"body": "Most of the PoE tree are dogshit travel nodes that give exciting bonuses like +5 strength or5% health. \n\nOr you have to spend like 5 or 6 passives to fill out a wheel that does nothing but increase some passive damage effect.\n\nDamn near all the skills end up looking and ok laying the same when there's so much shit going on the screen that you can't even see what your character is doing.\n\nThe PoE cucks are embarrassing. They cling onto poe because it makes them feel superior and intelligent because they've been neckbearding a bloated mess of a game.\n\nThey're going to be upset when quin chooses D4 over the next several PoE leagues. Thank God, because path of dogshit is that most resident sleeper content on so of twitch.",
"replies": [
{
"body": ""
}
]
},
{
"body": "聽君一席話，如聽一席話",
"replies": [
{
"body": "你是个傻瓜，什么都不懂。"
}
]
},
{
"body": "there are builds in poe that deals 10b dps compared to normal 1m-5m dps builds, with same skill. can you do that in d4? and im not talking about just getting bigger ilvl gear.",
"replies": [
{
"body": "Don't people shit on d3 for billions and trillions of damage?\n\nYou really stepped into that dog shit without even realising, AE....",
"replies": [
{
"body": "because in d3 billions and trillions is normal, in poe its not. its useless to even argue this because you clearly havent played poe",
"replies": [
{
"body": "I have 900 hours in it, I have played it for a while now it's convoluted AF complex AF and I still like, it but believe it or not MOST people don't like it. All my d3 and d2 buddies I used to play with have either tried it and said it was trash, tried it got bored with the campaign, looked at it from YouTuber's and seen the blink 1 shot gameplay and said the game wasn't for them and tried it made it to maps and never touched it again. It's a super niche game, like OSR. They most people they ever got was when? Right after a d4 beta weekend where they got an extra 50k people trying out their game. Hell, even d3 was a fucking way more popular game than POE for years and years. Until POE started to get good ofc.\n\nWhat I am trying to say is POE isn't perfect but it's the best on the market d4 will probably be way more popular but that's ok let d4 be the most popular game of arpgs let POE be for no lifers that sit in front of the computer 16 hours a day and let last epoch be in between.\n\nAnd just have fun with each game when a new season comes out."
}
]
}
]
}
]
},
{
"body": "Nothing like d4 and PoE frogs seething about each other on Quin69 subreddit, meanwhile I'm here just for memes."
},
{
"body": "Penis"
},
{
"body": "Loved your post, keep em coming"
},
{
"body": "The thing in PoE is that you \"Have the ability\" just because ppl choose 1 road doesnt mean there is no others. About D4 there is only 1 road for 1 class you cant go from Sorceress board to druid one and so on... so you will need to divide the images to separatly PER class ones to be more accurate and fair. \n\n\nTLDR; PoE Tree is more indeepth and gives you more freedom in choosing how you want to fuck up your build or find other ways. Where in D4 you have literally 1 way of playing maybe 2 if its still isnt nerfed. \n\n\nThink what you want. Even tho im not playing PoE i still think poe is more indeepth in building builds then d4. D4 is more for casuals and thats it."
}
]
}